JFS
Contributor
First the water, then the highway..... pretty soon even the airspace above Lions Bay will be claimed! they'll say that planes flying above them interfere with the transmissions to the mother ship!
Kelvin Grove Officially Off Limits
- Thread starter Sintax604
- Start date
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AquaSocMan
Guest
Saw the new video from last night on CTV... guys from IDC rockin the boat again... nice work guys, AquaSoc's got your back!
cram
Contributor
"No persons may scuba dive at Lions Bay Beach Park...it's pretty straightforward". Except we're talking about Kelvin, not Lions Bay Beach Park! Nice how she glossed over the first part of 12.1
My guess is that their next move will just be to ban all shore diving at Kelvin, since that's the only way out of the hole they've dug for themselves. The 200m offshore limit won't hold up though, and complaints have already been filed with the BC Ministry of Lands and Agriculture (there's a complaint form here: http://www.al.gov.bc.ca/clad/leg_policies/cabinet/complaint_form.pdf)
My guess is that their next move will just be to ban all shore diving at Kelvin, since that's the only way out of the hole they've dug for themselves. The 200m offshore limit won't hold up though, and complaints have already been filed with the BC Ministry of Lands and Agriculture (there's a complaint form here: http://www.al.gov.bc.ca/clad/leg_policies/cabinet/complaint_form.pdf)
Hey ScubaBoard!
Im a 23 year resident of Lions Bay. Let me tell you that I miss the way things were. this new council has taken over the village with rule after rule after rule, and its starting to piss everyone off. they have this attitude where they want to make everyone in the village happy, so they take all complaints from residents and treat them as gospel and produce obscure policy that applies to a very select few people but affects the entire village, and in this case obviously a lot more people than within the village.
Just a little back ground. This isn't the mayors first time in office, she was mayor for quite a while about 7 or so years, untill she was unseremoniously elected out of office for giving herself a salary without telling anyone (holding incamera council meetings; it was a volunteer council at the time). Anyways, she ran again and i guess was considered the lesser of 2 evils by winning with 30 or so more votes than the other guy.
Now to get to my point. I have been harrased by the locals at Kelvin, even though i live in lions bay and have a parking pass. So if there is anything you need from local residents, most of us are wayyy more than happy to help out.
Good Luck! We're on your side!
Im a 23 year resident of Lions Bay. Let me tell you that I miss the way things were. this new council has taken over the village with rule after rule after rule, and its starting to piss everyone off. they have this attitude where they want to make everyone in the village happy, so they take all complaints from residents and treat them as gospel and produce obscure policy that applies to a very select few people but affects the entire village, and in this case obviously a lot more people than within the village.
Just a little back ground. This isn't the mayors first time in office, she was mayor for quite a while about 7 or so years, untill she was unseremoniously elected out of office for giving herself a salary without telling anyone (holding incamera council meetings; it was a volunteer council at the time). Anyways, she ran again and i guess was considered the lesser of 2 evils by winning with 30 or so more votes than the other guy.
Now to get to my point. I have been harrased by the locals at Kelvin, even though i live in lions bay and have a parking pass. So if there is anything you need from local residents, most of us are wayyy more than happy to help out.
Good Luck! We're on your side!
sschlesi
Contributor
Hi LeftCoast,
A resident issuing a standing invite to come dive Lions Bay whenever we want would seem to skirt this ridiculous law quite nicely. There is no requirement that a resident be present or dive with us, we need only be "guests".
A resident issuing a standing invite to come dive Lions Bay whenever we want would seem to skirt this ridiculous law quite nicely. There is no requirement that a resident be present or dive with us, we need only be "guests".
AquaSocMan
Guest
hey guys, check out this email I got from a resident,
Please make this letter available to all responsible divers of your acquaintance. Feel free to circulate it to divers organizations and the like.
I believe that the by-law passed by the Village of Lions Bay requiring that divers be invited by a resident is not only contrary to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms but worse than that, rude and petty.
I am a taxpaying citizen of Lions Bay and have under the bylaw the right to bring guests to the Kelvin Grove Beach which I intend to do.
Any who wish to be my guest should email me at rafe@rafeonline.com and I will send them the invitation below.
I will be absent from September 23 - October 11 so any who might wish to dive at Kelvin Grove Beach during that period should contact me before then.
Sincerely,
Rafe
Please make this letter available to all responsible divers of your acquaintance. Feel free to circulate it to divers organizations and the like.
I believe that the by-law passed by the Village of Lions Bay requiring that divers be invited by a resident is not only contrary to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms but worse than that, rude and petty.
I am a taxpaying citizen of Lions Bay and have under the bylaw the right to bring guests to the Kelvin Grove Beach which I intend to do.
Any who wish to be my guest should email me at rafe@rafeonline.com and I will send them the invitation below.
I will be absent from September 23 - October 11 so any who might wish to dive at Kelvin Grove Beach during that period should contact me before then.
Sincerely,
Rafe
James Bond boat entry
Contributor
Hey Leftcoast,
I think a new business opportunity has just appeared for you... leading divers off of Kelvin Grove.
I think a new business opportunity has just appeared for you... leading divers off of Kelvin Grove.
Excerpt from the Lions Bay "Village Update" Newsletter August 20, 2009
"Bylaw Update!
Peach Akerhielm, Councillor"
"Other Changes to the Parks Bylaw
Diving at Kelvin Grove beach park is now only for residents and their guests; the increased popularity of group diving in
this area had compromised the neighborhoods peace and quiet. And to protect swimmers, motorized boats must stay 200
metres away from any park beach in Lions Bay, except when accessing an anchor buoy, at dead slow speed."
[This is the letter I emailed to CTV, Georgia Straight and the offices of Lion's Bay Council moments ago. Please note: I am not "angry" just puzzled by some Orwellian "Animal Farm" behavior.]
____________________________________________________________
Saturday. August 29th 2009
We drove to Kelvin Grove this afternoon and wandered around this very pleasant park and beach (after parking in one of the five "visitor" spots, certainly not in one of the 20 empty spots marked "residents parking only-others will be towed". ) It is a truly wonderful place: quiet, well maintained, and credit to the community. ( Here I refer to the greater community, not to single out any one exclusive entitled group.)
I observed that there is, in fact, a bathroom/change-room, well out of sight of the houses. There is also a concrete "pad" in front of the bathroom block, where a responsible and well-trained group of divers can safely assemble their gear for a dive, again well out of sight of the residents and offering no obstruction to other park users. I also observed two young men playing in the water with their two off-leash dogs while drinking beer in public. They did not appear to have any diving gear with them: just a cooler full of beer and two dogs. We observed no offenses being committed by divers in any case.
What I did find truly offensive was the sheer volume of bylaw enforcement signs, towing threats, and "residents only" signage. What a blight on the truly wonderful landscape! What a clear "stay out" message this transmits to the world and the local Greater Vancouver community.
I have some questions that I will need to be answered by Ms. Peach Akerhielm, Councillor and Mayor Brenda Broughton.
1. Under what jurisdiction(s) do the ocean, foreshore and park reside? (Genuine question: I am not finding this information generally available. Is it Provincial or National?)
2. Do current laws not already prohibit the acts that the Lions Bay Council seems concerned about? (without prejudice toward any group or select member of the public)
3. Has the council considered hearing from the dive community in the context of one of their meetings, so as to better inform themselves before making such a judgement?
4. I believe that scrutiny of the law and Canadian Charter of rights will reveal that such a bylaw must include all park visitors and residents: therefore if such a bylaw is to stand, NO ONE should be allowed in the park, on the foreshore or in the waters off Lions Bay. In the interests of fairness, this bylaw cannot single out one group of users, that are engaged in a lawful recreational pursuit. ( I am not a lawyer. Just prone to common sense.)
5. Have I missed some pertinent point that would deem the residents of Lions Bay Village more deserving of nature than I or my fellow diving enthusiasts? Please advise.
A note to Lions Bay Council: FYI, I believe I am representative of the kind of person that you will find amongst the divers that visit this and other BC dive sites.
I am a responsible, tax paying, law abiding, Vancouver resident. I took up diving earlier this year. I can't believe it took me this long to discover this fascination with marine life and the ocean environment, particularly as represented in our unspoiled BC waters.
I continue my diving education and certification with a reputable PADI authorized facility, in order to dive safely and responsibly.
I do not drink alcohol in public parks. I do not drink ANY alcohol for at least 12 hours prior to a dive.
I do not urinate or undress in public places. My parents taught me about bathrooms, manners and modesty at an early age.
I do not seek confrontation with my fellow humans for any reason, yet I am dismayed that some choose to confront and discriminate against me without knowing me or having any reasonable cause.
I am, however, ashamed for the Council of the Village of Lion's Bay. Having been involved in a local Council and various civic forums, I have observed how divisive and discriminatory this flawed line of reasoning truly is.
What group will you target next? When empty alcohol containers show up next, cars continue to park, and exuberant youth continues to celebrate on the beach, how will you identify and expel these offenders? By gender? By nationality? Perhaps you will imagine some other commonality (like picnickers...swimmers, or dog owners... or people not born in BC) that can be used to discriminate against a select group.
Will it be OK with you if the residents of English Bay, Jericho Beach or Coal Harbour were to prohibit you from enjoying the wonders of their adjacent public spaces?
Canada embraces all colors, nationalities and religions, yet Lion's Bay Council singles out scuba divers as criminals? I don't understand.
(May I offer this: I too pay taxes in BC/Vancouver and yet have suffered the gross indignity of an occasional loud party in my neighborhood, disrupting my peace and quiet. I have even found the odd empty beer can on my front lawn ! However, being somewhat reasonable and not given to histrionics, I chose not to rally my neighbors to expel the wrongdoers from Dunbar, where I live. I believe these to be isolated occurrences that do not amount to a serious threat to my community or well-being. If I find otherwise, I will inform the police in my area so that peace can be restored, using the laws and means afforded all citizens.)
I am disappointed that I have not yet had the opportunity to experience the beautiful underwater sites and marine life of Lion's Bay. I have been looking forward to it since first hearing about the many fantastic dive sites available in the GVRD and it's waters. I am hoping that reason will prevail, so I may enjoy the nature that compelled my wife and I to choose BC as our home.
respectfully,
mark o.
PADI Open Water Certified
29 dives since Easter '09
( 24 of them in BC waters! )
"Bylaw Update!
Peach Akerhielm, Councillor"
"Other Changes to the Parks Bylaw
Diving at Kelvin Grove beach park is now only for residents and their guests; the increased popularity of group diving in
this area had compromised the neighborhoods peace and quiet. And to protect swimmers, motorized boats must stay 200
metres away from any park beach in Lions Bay, except when accessing an anchor buoy, at dead slow speed."
[This is the letter I emailed to CTV, Georgia Straight and the offices of Lion's Bay Council moments ago. Please note: I am not "angry" just puzzled by some Orwellian "Animal Farm" behavior.]
____________________________________________________________
Saturday. August 29th 2009
We drove to Kelvin Grove this afternoon and wandered around this very pleasant park and beach (after parking in one of the five "visitor" spots, certainly not in one of the 20 empty spots marked "residents parking only-others will be towed". ) It is a truly wonderful place: quiet, well maintained, and credit to the community. ( Here I refer to the greater community, not to single out any one exclusive entitled group.)
I observed that there is, in fact, a bathroom/change-room, well out of sight of the houses. There is also a concrete "pad" in front of the bathroom block, where a responsible and well-trained group of divers can safely assemble their gear for a dive, again well out of sight of the residents and offering no obstruction to other park users. I also observed two young men playing in the water with their two off-leash dogs while drinking beer in public. They did not appear to have any diving gear with them: just a cooler full of beer and two dogs. We observed no offenses being committed by divers in any case.
What I did find truly offensive was the sheer volume of bylaw enforcement signs, towing threats, and "residents only" signage. What a blight on the truly wonderful landscape! What a clear "stay out" message this transmits to the world and the local Greater Vancouver community.
I have some questions that I will need to be answered by Ms. Peach Akerhielm, Councillor and Mayor Brenda Broughton.
1. Under what jurisdiction(s) do the ocean, foreshore and park reside? (Genuine question: I am not finding this information generally available. Is it Provincial or National?)
2. Do current laws not already prohibit the acts that the Lions Bay Council seems concerned about? (without prejudice toward any group or select member of the public)
3. Has the council considered hearing from the dive community in the context of one of their meetings, so as to better inform themselves before making such a judgement?
4. I believe that scrutiny of the law and Canadian Charter of rights will reveal that such a bylaw must include all park visitors and residents: therefore if such a bylaw is to stand, NO ONE should be allowed in the park, on the foreshore or in the waters off Lions Bay. In the interests of fairness, this bylaw cannot single out one group of users, that are engaged in a lawful recreational pursuit. ( I am not a lawyer. Just prone to common sense.)
5. Have I missed some pertinent point that would deem the residents of Lions Bay Village more deserving of nature than I or my fellow diving enthusiasts? Please advise.
A note to Lions Bay Council: FYI, I believe I am representative of the kind of person that you will find amongst the divers that visit this and other BC dive sites.
I am a responsible, tax paying, law abiding, Vancouver resident. I took up diving earlier this year. I can't believe it took me this long to discover this fascination with marine life and the ocean environment, particularly as represented in our unspoiled BC waters.
I continue my diving education and certification with a reputable PADI authorized facility, in order to dive safely and responsibly.
I do not drink alcohol in public parks. I do not drink ANY alcohol for at least 12 hours prior to a dive.
I do not urinate or undress in public places. My parents taught me about bathrooms, manners and modesty at an early age.
I do not seek confrontation with my fellow humans for any reason, yet I am dismayed that some choose to confront and discriminate against me without knowing me or having any reasonable cause.
I am, however, ashamed for the Council of the Village of Lion's Bay. Having been involved in a local Council and various civic forums, I have observed how divisive and discriminatory this flawed line of reasoning truly is.
What group will you target next? When empty alcohol containers show up next, cars continue to park, and exuberant youth continues to celebrate on the beach, how will you identify and expel these offenders? By gender? By nationality? Perhaps you will imagine some other commonality (like picnickers...swimmers, or dog owners... or people not born in BC) that can be used to discriminate against a select group.
Will it be OK with you if the residents of English Bay, Jericho Beach or Coal Harbour were to prohibit you from enjoying the wonders of their adjacent public spaces?
Canada embraces all colors, nationalities and religions, yet Lion's Bay Council singles out scuba divers as criminals? I don't understand.
(May I offer this: I too pay taxes in BC/Vancouver and yet have suffered the gross indignity of an occasional loud party in my neighborhood, disrupting my peace and quiet. I have even found the odd empty beer can on my front lawn ! However, being somewhat reasonable and not given to histrionics, I chose not to rally my neighbors to expel the wrongdoers from Dunbar, where I live. I believe these to be isolated occurrences that do not amount to a serious threat to my community or well-being. If I find otherwise, I will inform the police in my area so that peace can be restored, using the laws and means afforded all citizens.)
I am disappointed that I have not yet had the opportunity to experience the beautiful underwater sites and marine life of Lion's Bay. I have been looking forward to it since first hearing about the many fantastic dive sites available in the GVRD and it's waters. I am hoping that reason will prevail, so I may enjoy the nature that compelled my wife and I to choose BC as our home.
respectfully,
mark o.
PADI Open Water Certified
29 dives since Easter '09
( 24 of them in BC waters! )
sschlesi
Contributor
For those of you who don't already know. Sintax604's (Scott) original letter to Lions Bay has kicked off a series of articles on LionsBay.net. I just added my comments to the most active article here is a link to the article: Lions Bay Community Online BC Canada - Scuba Diving at Kelvin Grove Beach Park
And I'll share my comments here as well: (I have fixed some grammar errors that were submitted to lionsbay.net)
So far I have seen 3 objections to scuba divers provided by members of Lions Bay council, all of which are already addressed by existing federal and provincial legislation. All of these issues can and should be dealt with in a non-discriminatory manner using the existing laws provided by senior levels of government.
1) Drinking in public. This is well known (and widely ignored) to be illegal in BC. I suspect divers are one of the least offending groups as alcohol and diving are known to be a BAD mix, all divers are told during their open water training to avoid alcohol when they go diving. I'm sure that non-divers consume the vast majority of alcohol at Kelvin Grove park. Having worked for several years at Crooked River Provincial Park which has a very popular beach (100's of beach goers on every hot summer day), we always found the RCMP extremely willing to help us deal with alcohol problems on the beach.
2) Public nudity. This is a criminal offense in Canada. While the nudity law has a complicated history and it would be difficult to bring charges for nudity, committing an indecent act is also a criminal offense and it will be much easier to use this law to get a conviction.
3) Urinating in public. I'm not sure if there is a specific law against this, I suppose there probably is. Certainly committing an indecent act would apply in this situation as well.
Lions Bay council could save itself a lot of trouble by repealing the discriminatory scuba diving law, and making use of the existing legislation to deal with the problems in their parks.
And I'll share my comments here as well: (I have fixed some grammar errors that were submitted to lionsbay.net)
So far I have seen 3 objections to scuba divers provided by members of Lions Bay council, all of which are already addressed by existing federal and provincial legislation. All of these issues can and should be dealt with in a non-discriminatory manner using the existing laws provided by senior levels of government.
1) Drinking in public. This is well known (and widely ignored) to be illegal in BC. I suspect divers are one of the least offending groups as alcohol and diving are known to be a BAD mix, all divers are told during their open water training to avoid alcohol when they go diving. I'm sure that non-divers consume the vast majority of alcohol at Kelvin Grove park. Having worked for several years at Crooked River Provincial Park which has a very popular beach (100's of beach goers on every hot summer day), we always found the RCMP extremely willing to help us deal with alcohol problems on the beach.
2) Public nudity. This is a criminal offense in Canada. While the nudity law has a complicated history and it would be difficult to bring charges for nudity, committing an indecent act is also a criminal offense and it will be much easier to use this law to get a conviction.
3) Urinating in public. I'm not sure if there is a specific law against this, I suppose there probably is. Certainly committing an indecent act would apply in this situation as well.
Lions Bay council could save itself a lot of trouble by repealing the discriminatory scuba diving law, and making use of the existing legislation to deal with the problems in their parks.
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