Kelvin Grove Officially Off Limits

[joolz]

September 8

 

[sschlesi]

So, who saw the news story on CTV about outlawing divers at Kelvin Grove?

Steve at IDC seems to have got us some public attention on this topic. It was nice to see someone from BC Civil Liberties Association suggesting that the special classification of divers is ripe for a challenge.

I only wish they had clearly pointed out that the mayor's objections of changing, urinating, drinking in public are either legal or adequately addressed by existing laws.

 

[sschlesi]

Here is a link to an online version of the story

CTV British Columbia- Lions Bay bylaw restrictions under fire - CTV News, Shows and Sports -- Canadian Television

 

[mazziekhan]

well it looks like the sh*&% about to hit the fan!

 

[CapitanBlack]

Here is a link to an online version of the story

CTV British Columbia- Lions Bay bylaw restrictions under fire - CTV News, Shows and Sports -- Canadian Television

"We're talking about undressing in the parking lot, public urination, drinking," said village mayor Brenda Broughton. "It's outrageous."

0) Ohhhhh...public nudity again - its' soooooo American... I guess if somebody from Lions Bay's purists, would ever go to any public beach anywhere in the south of France - they might become heart attacked, because of hundreds almost nude (topless) nice womans, walking and lying everywhere on the sand. And nobody cares - kids are playing near, people are drinking, smoking, laughing - everyone just enjoying the life, sun and nature. Interesting moment - many beaches over there just are in front of very expensive houses. Like here, everything below the high tide mark is a PUBLIC PROPERTY in France. No private beaches at all - you can walk along the beach for few kilometers sometimes...

1) Ok, I can barely imagine that somebody was peeing right at the parking lot, but how did they determine that person was a diver? What makes them so sure that he (I can't imagine a lady in such situation, sorry...) was a diver? A person has forgotten to remove his tanks and suit? Never believe unless I will see that by my own eyes. Why all divers @ WhyteCliff Park always goes to public washrooms and do not do the same the Lions Bay? Looks like we do that just to demonstrate our deepest contempt to the owners of multi-million homes and to the all high society in general...

2) How they did determine that divers(?) were consuming an alcohol at the parking lot or anywhere at the park??!! By a loud laugh, smiles and red faces? Maybe people were happy, because they just met an octopus? I always happy after a dive - just because I came alive.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Well the worst way is to further piss off the locals. That just reinforces to them that they made the right decision.

The best way is to have a provincial body to speak for divers, like the OUC or the AUC. Here in Alberta the feds have tried a couple of times over the years to shut down or restrict diving at Lake Minnewanka in Banff, however intervention and lobbying from the Alberta Underwater Council has aided in such drastic measures not being taken. Bureaucrats like dealing with bureaucrats. They don't like to dirty their hands by dealing with the teeming masses.

Unfortunately last time I checked the BCUC was not operating anymore. So the next best way to fight the man is to organize a semi-formal group and meet with the town council on a civil basis, find out their concerns and see if something can be worked out.

Or graft...a little palm grease goes a long way to placating small town politicians.

Excellent advice.

We recently had a popular dive site closed off to diving on advice to City Council that it was an insurance liability. There was no public notice until after the fact. Once it became known, a group of maybe two dozen divers converged on the next City Council meeting to address the issue. They were well behaved, respectful, and came prepared to present a diver's perspective, including pictures, of why access to the site mattered to them.

Upshot was that after a couple such meetings, the site got re-opened to diving with the proviso that a "Dive at your own risk" sign went up on the beach.

Brian's advice is spot on ... play the system. If at all possible, play the economic issue. Small towns love it when outsiders leave revenue behind.

However you do it, you MUST present it in such a way that there's some benefit to the community having you there.

And good luck. Skookumchuck and TWR took me and my friends to that site a few months back, and it's definitely one of the better dive sites along that side of Howe Sound. I was hoping to be able to dive it again ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[joolz]

"We're talking about undressing in the parking lot, public urination, drinking," said village mayor Brenda Broughton. "It's outrageous."

Divers are now DRINKING in the parking lot?! That's a new one. I thought she was just concerned that we're peeing on their children

 

[Sintax604]

Here is a link to an online version of the story

CTV British Columbia- Lions Bay bylaw restrictions under fire - CTV News, Shows and Sports -- Canadian Television

Thanks for the link, Scott. He did a pretty decent job on the story although I wish he would have mentioned specifics about how the law was illegal. It's a big step in the right direction anyway - can't wait to see what happens next!

 

[paddledive]

!! GIDDIUP !!
Lets go drinkin', scuba divin', undress to nudity then pee on ourselves! Yah hoo!! Seen it all before everytime I go divin' at Kelvin!

Good work to whomever successfully got the story out to media. Anyone see the other recent North Shore News Story about Lions Bay residents getting into loud arguments with non-resident hikers?

I got an email reply from Don Sutherland (Director, Advisory Services Branch, Ministry of Community and Rural Development).
In a portion of his email, Mr Sutherland told me:

"As you have noted, the Community Charter gives a municipal council the ability to pass bylaws that regulate, prohibit and impose requirements. Section 12 allows the bylaw to have different provisions for different areas, times, conditions, or circumstances. A bylaw can also establish different classes of person, places, activities, property, or things. A municipality must make available to the public, on request, a statement respecting the council’s reasons for adopting a bylaw under the noted subsections of Section 8."

Mr Sutherland went on to provide me with some contact numbers (including pro bono) if I/we wished to pursue the matter in court.

I like that quiet sound....kinda sounds like a landslide about to tumble down onto the Lions Bay bylaws....

 

[vjanelle]

I did. In that respect the lions bay folks were paranoid about wildfires.