Just needs some opinions..kids diving

[Natasha]

Longwalk,
Why did you have trouble with the kids in the quarry? Do you mean kids 10 to 12?
My kids are about to do their open water in the quarry here in Chicago. I wanted to take them down to Florida, but they want to do it here with the same instructor they had in the pool.
They know it's going to be cold and murky, and they'll have to wear wet suits. I thought all this makes them even better divers when they get into the Caribbean.
:sunny:

 

[longwalk]

The actual problems were a)equalizing and b)control of the BC.

We would find that the group would be fractured when one of the kids had problems in the quarry equalizing. And either I or another of the DMs would end up having to bail on the dive to buddy with the kid until either he/she got equalizing sorted out or we got out of the water. We didn't always have enough DM's to go around (we tried to keep the ratio to one DM for every two students, plus the instructor).

The more dangerous problem was the lack of BC control - in Dutch Springs the bottom, under the training platforms (at 6 meters) was 20 meters. More than once, a kid would forget or be unable to bleed air into the BC and one of us would be either chasing the kid past the platforms and into the muck - you can imagine how terrified the kid would be.

My own opinion is that the equalizing issue was specifically physiological: these kids did fine in the 70+ degree pool even when we had them in hoods and mitts, but in the 50 degree quarry some of them couldn't get one or both tubes to balance. I'm not a doc or anything, but that's my opinion.

The other issue I think is about maturity - in the pool, with the comfort of bottom and good vis, working the BC was fun and a little 'macho' (more guys had problems with this than the ladies). In the quarry with no bottom, 2 - 4 meters of vis and a full wetsuit, weights and everything else, the kids wouldn't so much freeze up as get confused. (Again, my opinion).

I agree with you, the cold water training, getting the cert with ALL the gear, it makes a better diver: the question, I think, is WHEN do you make that diver.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Most, if not all, of the objections I read here to junior certifications can be condensed to "children are not adults."
Well, what a surprise!
That's why we have junior certifications.
And while we expect a certified child to meet the same minimum skills requirements as an adult, we don't expect them to *be* an adult. We expect them to require additional supervision, to dive more conservatively under the watchful eye and supervision of a parent (in the case of 10 & 11 year olds), another responsible certified adult or an instructor. We expect them to remain shallower than an adult, and to dive in less stressful conditions.
If you, as an adult or parent, are not prepared to dive with a junior diver as a supervisor and adult member of an adult-child activity, then don't dive with children.
Properly guided, parented and supervised, junior divers can dive safely, competently and add great enjoyment to their own growing up and to their buddy's diving experience.
Rick

 

[neil]

Rick,
I think you're right on those points. Maybe what would make sense would be to make sure that the parent the 10-12 yr old dives with knows how to handle the kid when things don't go well U/W. How about a short course on being a "kid companion" similar to the training given to people who buddy with handicapped divers? Sort of a shortened rescue course with a little additional stuff geared toward accompanying a child. An instructor could, and should incorporate the extra buddying skills into the regular class.
And I would insist that the parent(s) take the cert. class with the child, whether they are certified or not, so right from the get-go they are learning to be responsible for them. Opinions?

Neil

 

[longwalk]

right on Neil -

None of my observations are or were intended to prevent or discourage the younger ones (though the medical concerns voiced above are a separate and important area for concern).

As Rick says, the idea of trying to make a 12 yo fit into an adult training model is inherently flawed, and in our sport, flaws are the cracking points that can and do lead to sometimes mortal failures.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Especially in the junior-junior (10 & 11) classes, we teach the parent to be a "parent underwater" as part of the course. And we don't take 'em to Blue Corner, but rather to places with plenty of shallow, clear, low current, colorful easy diving (Bonaire & Akumal are two of my favorites). A little care and common sense applied make the junior diver program a winner.
Rick

 

[Natasha]

I love the "Parent underwater" idea.
But since it doesn't exist how about trying to give it over the typewriter.
What would you have us know if you could teach it?
:sunny:

 

[Rick Murchison]

Just a few examples of "parenting underwater" -
1. Your child is your child, not your buddy. If you want a buddy bring one along, too.
2. Hold your child's hand a lot.
3. Show your child neat stuff that's close, non-threatening and easy to see.
4. When your child is ready to lead and show you stuff, follow closely and pay attention - be impressed with what they find.
---- gotta go right now - gotta shut down - thunderstorm on the way ---
later,
Rick

 

[Fishkiller]

Maybe parents should just pay for an underwater parenting course.

Pre qualifications:

Have child
Have scuba gear
Have body of water

Course agenda

How to demonstrate and dive proper dive planning
How the buddy system works
How to dive within experience of buddy team

Proper toleration of others who are unable to understand prior three

 

[Rick Murchison]

5. Don't forget that you're the parent - you're in charge and you're responsible. If the child does something stupid, correct immediately. If it can't be corrected underwater then call the dive and discuss it on the surface. *Never* be wishy-washy about dive safety.
6. On the other hand, give the child the freedom to explore unhindered within the limits of the safe dive. Let the child's interests guide... if the child wants to spend the whole dive looking at the sand patterns around the anchor then see the beauty there.
------
Diving with children is not for everyone. It takes putting the child first while maintaining a close watch and tight control over those things that matter, while letting the dive go in ways that may be *boring* to you... to some folks it isn't worth the trouble. To me, it is an absolute delight.
Rick