Just for the gobble gobbles- Guess the reg(s) I’m restoring

[Mobulai]

While things dry off before approaching assembly, and I gather the will power to continue this (in a way scary) project (as a noob)..
Can you guessed what 2nd stage(s) I’m rebuilding here?
I’m trying to take advantage of the induced slowness; otherwise it shouldn’t be that hard (since I learned about that stuff over here, so at least the “usual suspects” would need but a minute)

See how many spoilers/hints you’ll take to get it right, last one is the answer


Hints:

- it’s Scubapro
- end balanced barrel obv. (ignore the extra stuff at the edges: the vintage mk2, and other scary partial 2nd stage)
- they’re gonna be frankenregs

——

- they’re are notoriously annoying to tune
- I have no idea how I’ll be able to tune them

——-

- newer simpler variants still exist in the SP lineup

——-

- had an awesome feature that died feom SP lineup right after their debut

———————

G500/s600(1st gen) with pneumatic seat-saver adj knob


This is just my (bored/convoluted) way of sharing a day in the life and saying this after 11 months registered here (and a few years lurkingg:
Thanks to everyone on this awesome board, I’ve learned so much already (and have much more to learn still); and so many of you have been extremely helpful and patient with my noob-ass questions, and even supporting me with awesome goodies and toys, couldn’t have gotten from absolute noob to “not a lost case” noob without the collective wisdom and communal sense that thrives around here

Y’all are awesome and I’m thankful to have you in my life/hobby

I love you all without have met you, I hope y’all are doing well today

 

[Scared Silly]

Too easy, perhaps hide the second stage purge covers with the big ole "S" on them.

 

[happy-diver]

convoluted

Mate I'm just putting into service a few D400s right now, that's close to an Air1 isn't it

Not reg service, diving service

Can you appreciate my right side of head, paralenz, bubblifying modification

Thank you for bringing an extra intrigue to ScubaBoard, you are magnificent!

http://www.angelofarina.it/Public/Scubapro/AIR%201%20Manual.pdf

 

[Mobulai]

that's close to an Air1 isn't it

I do appreciate that sentiment — and your McGyver approach to things
Very close, if you can mod it back to have a singular diaphragm it would be a 1 in disguise
Funny you mentioned the Air1, as there are a couple of parts from it in the batch I cleaned

extra intrigue to ScubaBoard

We all do in our own ways don’t we Happy

Not reg service, diving service

Not sure that applies to my case (the 2 regs in question) given I dont have the ability to tune them right without the special tool unless I spend copious amount of trials

 

[happy-diver]

Mate see this

Can you guessed what 2nd stage(s) I’m rebuilding here?

Funny you mentioned the Air1, as there are a couple of parts from it in the batch I cleaned

Why do you think I mentioned the Air1

and after I decide to use the D400s more permanently I may go less ghetto like here

Do people even read their own threads

 

[Kupu]

- notoriously annoying to tune
- I have no idea how I’ll be able to tune them

G500/s600(1st gen) with pneumatic seat-saver adj knob

Some years back I used G500s and first gen s600s, back then my service tool kit was not much more than tools pulled from my home & car tool box and sometimes slightly modified. I did not own the balance chamber tool and was able to successfully adjust the balance chamber piston as described in the service manuals with a flat head screw driver that was probably modified to fit. Not difficult. Eventually the correct tool was purchased for a few bucks on ebay, it is nifty but the end result was the same.

Depending on the service manual used, some versions do not mention the importance of not lubricating certain parts of the floating balance chamber, as shown in the attached bulletin.

The grey poppet is unique and not so common, finding one makes me feel like I won a prize.
First generation blue body balanced poppets did not have removable seats. This grey body poppet with removable seat is part # 11-250-120. It is the second generation of the SP balanced poppet and was seen in G250 and Balanced Adjustable during the early 90's. Desirable to some since DIYers can install a duro poppet style puck seat with the center punched out and they perform on par with the modern S-wing poppet.
Practically speaking it makes more sense to spend a few bucks and buy a new rivet style seat for modern poppet but that is too easy.

 

[Mobulai]

Do people even read their own threads

Seems I was the only one that got the gobble slowness — keen eye Happy
(It flew over my head that you spotted Air1 parts, I thought you mentioned it because of the Ds)

 

[Mobulai]

not lubricating certain parts of the floating balance chamber, as shown in the attached bulletin.

I didn’t know that — I lubed up the 7 orings (minimally) but I guess I’ll have to open it up and clean it again after reading that bulletin

This rebuild is mainly an experiment in mixing and matching parts
The g500 originally had the grey rivet poppet, the early curly foot lever and a metal barrel
the 600 had the latest swing, a plastic barrel and the taller lever (don’t know it’s name)

Before I took it all apart I also came across a parts bin from a closing dive shop, and it had the blue poppet and a couple metal barrels, and an older curly foot (like in the 250)

now here’s where I’m kinda stuck, the s- wing doesn’t sit that nicely on the lever feet, and sometimes skips beyond it — takes me a few tries to get it to engage correctly

I decided to rebuild 2 identical regs (metal barrels) and only 2 variables for the 1st part of the experiment:
- the levers („wavy“ one IIRC p/n xx-600-141, and the „normal“ curly foot xx-250-141)
- the poppets (swing vs rivet grey ones)
I tried bending the lever feet inwards as much as I can to avoid slippage, but the older poppets engage much better still
Ok the blue one is not doing that well from the stem side; but I’ll not use it since it’s really hardened

The second part of this experiment is my end goal for these 2 regs - but that only comes after I can tune it properly:
The anti-set part and lp seat materials
I got another one of the grey poppets and wanna try 2 thing:
- how effective the anti-set is without wasting top hat seats (they aint that expensive, but I’ll keep my stash for my in use swing poppets)
- how different materials/thickness would play along, for now I’m starting with FKM and Nitrile (thanks @rsingler and @Kupu for helping me get that) but I also wanna try varying duros, silicone..
That’s not so easy with the top hat seats

Why all that? Entertaining myself, but also to maybe eliminate oem service kits (for these 2 poppets) — they are getting pricier and harder to source even here in the EU

Honestly, I still prefer the simplicity of dealing with the 250/109/156s, maybe eventually the grey poppets will go in these, or as Happy said:

I may go less ghetto like here

Also, what are them red things @happy-diver ? Keeping spiders out or something like rebreather plugs for +ve pressure checks?

Man, I need to get in the water soon,being landlocked is making me really overthink it all

 

[Kupu]

The g500 originally had the grey rivet poppet, the early curly foot lever and a metal barrel

Thanks for mentioning that, I never thought to look at the G500 schematics when trying to figure out when the grey poppet was used. Up to this point I had only noticed it in a G250 schematic from 1993 and B/A from 1992 and so thought it was a short lived item. Before and after those dates the blue poppet is shown, until the s-wing poppet takes over around 1999. But after reading your comment I went back and sure enough, the grey poppet reappears along side the blue poppet in 1998 G250 schematic and is in some G500s from 1997-1998.

now here’s where I’m kinda stuck, the s- wing doesn’t sit that nicely on the lever feet, and sometimes skips beyond it — takes me a few tries to get it to engage correctly

After finding the same thing, multiple tries to engage the poppet, at some point I realized my success rate was improved when the lever was folded back and resting on the edge of the case by the air inlet vs laid down and resting flat on the barrel.

The second part of this experiment is my end goal for these 2 regs - but that only comes after I can tune it properly:
The anti-set part and lp seat materials
I got another one of the grey poppets and wanna try 2 thing:
- how effective the anti-set is without wasting top hat seats (they aint that expensive, but I’ll keep my stash for my in use swing poppets)
- how different materials/thickness would play along, for now I’m starting with FKM and Nitrile but I also wanna try varying duros, silicone..

It's not exactly the same thing but I did briefly experiment with using top hat seats from various other brands in the SP s-wing poppet to see if I could notice a performance difference. DGX, Trident, Deep6, and maybe one or two others. The seat thickness and material varied a bit from the SP OEM seats but they all worked well enough that I could not find a reason not to use any of them in my personal regulators. Nowadays I'm mostly back to OEM seats since I have a bag full of them thanks to the help of most excellent Simon.
Good idea to play around with different materials using the grey poppets, it will be interesting to hear the results.

Why all that? Entertaining myself, but also to maybe eliminate oem service kits (for these 2 poppets) — they are getting pricier and harder to source even here in the EU

Honestly, I still prefer the simplicity of dealing with the 250/109/156s

Yep, after spending lots of time trying different things, mostly out of curiosity and also to avoid needing service kits --- It is kind of nice to have reached a point of keeping it simple and being satisfied with having found the regulators that became my go to items. Plenty of parts on hand and not much fussing around needed when service time rolls around. G260 and AIR1 get most of my love these days.

But still, a big reason I became a Scubpro fan was the many styles of regulators they made over the years. So much fun for a DIYer to have so many options to play with.

 

[lexvil]

These are turkeys but the case can house s600 internals.