Just finished OW training looking at advanced OW

[boulderjohn]

I'm waiting to take Nitrox until I need it so that it'll be fresh in my mind BTW, does this course cost the same in all DCs? What about in different countries. I can see that OW and AOW prices can differ because different salaries for the instructors but if Nitrox is computer based I would think that it's all the same no matter where you are in the world.

The course is the same for each agency throughout the world. That does not change. As in all cases in all businesses, the price varies by local conditions. Those prices are set completely by the local shop or instructor. The agency is not involved. You can have two shops side by side teaching the same course for the same agency but have different prices, but I would expect that would be unusual because of competition.

AOW courses can vary dramatically from place to place because of local market conditions but also local dive conditions. It the shop is located where they can walk out the door and do all the dives, that is very different from a place where they have to go out on a boat for all the dives, and extremely different from a place where they have to travel for a day, pay for lodging at night, and do all the dives by boat. Where I live in Colorado, there are no local sites deep enough for the AOW deep dive, so AOWs require a long trip, and most are done on major group trips to exotic locations.

 

[boulderjohn]

OK. That’s good. I misunderstood that it would be a full EAN cert.

Ha! So did I! I have obviously never taught the AOW with the nitrox dive. I have never heard of a student choosing that option.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I am of the opinion that before a diver does AOW, as I teach it, they need to be comfortable with their basic skills and have those pretty much nailed. I don't want to spend time polishing mask clearing, basic kicks, and basic buoyancy and trim. My AOW class is much different than many. It's 6 dives and all except one are mandatory. You can choose between a recreational search and recovery or recreational wreck. The rest I have chosen and each builds on the previous dive.
There are minimum entry requirements and I prefer students to have already done a rescue class or rescue workshop before signing up.
If you can't do all basic skills neutral and in decent trim in midwater you'll likely struggle getting through all the AOW skills. Which is why, if I wasn't your OW instructor, we take a pool session to evaluate where you are and I'll make suggestions on what to work on if necessary. This evaluation is done at my expense.
I don't do many of these as a result. Most people don't want to put in the work or pay the $450 course fee. Those who have though have walked away satisfied and knowing a lot more than they did.

 

[Scuba Client]

I'm waiting to take Nitrox until I need it so that it'll be fresh in my mind BTW, does this course cost the same in all DCs? What about in different countries. I can see that OW and AOW prices can differ because different salaries for the instructors but if Nitrox is computer based I would think that it's all the same no matter where you are in the world.

I see you're a Colombian. Are they going to charge you tourist prices? The Nitrox course is simple maths. Working part of dive: PO2 1.4 divide .32% = 4.37 ATA = 33 metres depth. The cheapest prices for certification is usually in Asia. Don't let anyone convince you on quality training. Download US Navy Manual, NOAA Diving Manual (4th edition) NOAA Central Nervous System Oxygen Toxicity tables.
NOAA No-Decompression Tables for Nitrox Dives | Office of Marine and Aviation Operations
Library | Dive Gear Express®

 

[Centrals]

Far too many opt for OW/AOW combined.
I had total of 15 dives before enrolled for the AOW.

 

[Jafo19D]

I see you're a Colombian. Are they going to charge you tourist prices? The Nitrox course is simple maths. Working part of dive: PO2 1.4 divide .32% = 4.37 ATA = 33 metres depth. The cheapest prices for certification is usually in Asia. Don't let anyone convince you on quality training. Download US Navy Manual, NOAA Diving Manual (4th edition) NOAA Central Nervous System Oxygen Toxicity tables.
NOAA No-Decompression Tables for Nitrox Dives | Office of Marine and Aviation Operations
Library | Dive Gear Express®

American living in Colombia. But I’ll get the local price.

 

[Seville]

I am of the opinion that before a diver does AOW, as I teach it, they need to be comfortable with their basic skills and have those pretty much nailed. I don't want to spend time polishing mask clearing, basic kicks, and basic buoyancy and trim. My AOW class is much different than many. It's 6 dives and all except one are mandatory. You can choose between a recreational search and recovery or recreational wreck. The rest I have chosen and each builds on the previous dive.
There are minimum entry requirements and I prefer students to have already done a rescue class or rescue workshop before signing up.
If you can't do all basic skills neutral and in decent trim in midwater you'll likely struggle getting through all the AOW skills. Which is why, if I wasn't your OW instructor, we take a pool session to evaluate where you are and I'll make suggestions on what to work on if necessary. This evaluation is done at my expense.
I don't do many of these as a result. Most people don't want to put in the work or pay the $450 course fee. Those who have though have walked away satisfied and knowing a lot more than they did.

What kind of minimum entry requirements are there?

 

[Scuba Client]

Relating to the last 5-6 comments....

1. Yes, you have to be a nitrox instructor to lead the AOW nitrox dive. That does not mean it isn't an allowed AOW dive. (It is possible you and I are misunderstanding each other and talking past each other.)

2. Most people consider oxygen and nitrogen to be equally narcotic, so on that theory there is no benefit to nitrox for narcosis. The big question, though, is the fact that some of the oxygen is metabolized, and it is very difficult to test for that effect. A study a few years ago suggested (note the word) a small benefit to nitrox in terms of narcosis.

3. I have never heard of people blacking out from narcosis at 27 meters. There are cases of people blacking out while breathing air at much greater depths, like deeper than 90 meters. Brett Gilliam told me that Sheck Exley sometimes blacked out on air at around 120 meters. April Cohen in Cozumel either was so narced at the planned 90 meters that she continued to 120, or she passed out at 90 and fell to 120--different people give different explanations. The big question is what caused the blackout. It could have been extreme narcosis, or it could have been an effect of oxygen toxicity. If it was oxygen toxicity, diving on nitrox would definitely not be a benefit.

The largest percentage of factors involved in diving fatalities is a medical event, usually involving the heart. That includes sudden cardiac death, in which the individual is alive and doing fine one second and dead the next. In such cases, yes, the individual will pass out at 27 meters--or any depth whatsoever. Or on the boat. That has nothing to do with narcosis, though, and nitrox will not help.

When I say blackout, their eyes are wide open but they are incapacitated, cannot remember anything, and they only become aware of their surroundings when depth decreases.

 

[WinfieldNC]

Relating to the last 5-6 comments....

1. Yes, you have to be a nitrox instructor to lead the AOW nitrox dive. That does not mean it isn't an allowed AOW dive. (It is possible you and I are misunderstanding each other and talking past each other.)

2. Most people consider oxygen and nitrogen to be equally narcotic, so on that theory there is no benefit to nitrox for narcosis. The big question, though, is the fact that some of the oxygen is metabolized, and it is very difficult to test for that effect. A study a few years ago suggested (note the word) a small benefit to nitrox in terms of narcosis.

3. I have never heard of people blacking out from narcosis at 27 meters. There are cases of people blacking out while breathing air at much greater depths, like deeper than 90 meters. Brett Gilliam told me that Sheck Exley sometimes blacked out on air at around 120 meters. April Cohen in Cozumel either was so narced at the planned 90 meters that she continued to 120, or she passed out at 90 and fell to 120--different people give different explanations. The big question is what caused the blackout. It could have been extreme narcosis, or it could have been an effect of oxygen toxicity. If it was oxygen toxicity, diving on nitrox would definitely not be a benefit.

The largest percentage of factors involved in diving fatalities is a medical event, usually involving the heart. That includes sudden cardiac death, in which the individual is alive and doing fine one second and dead the next. In such cases, yes, the individual will pass out at 27 meters--or any depth whatsoever. Or on the boat. That has nothing to do with narcosis, though, and nitrox will not help.

To speak to point #2 we also know that the brain metabolizes oxygen faster than the rest of the body. It certainly seems like nitrox could cut down on narcosis some.

“While making up only a small fraction of our total body mass, the brain represents the largest source of energy consumption—accounting for over 20% of total oxygen metabolism.”

Brain Energy and Oxygen Metabolism: Emerging Role in Normal Function and Disease).

 

[boulderjohn]

When I say blackout, their eyes are wide open but they are incapacitated, cannot remember anything, and they only become aware of their surroundings when depth decreases.

I have never seen that at any depth.