Just curious about how well marketed "GUE" concept is in various parts of the world?

[Dan Gibson]

Most SS backplates are approximately 6 lbs. The Aluminum plates are approximately 2 lbs. Take the AL plate to the islands.

The wing and AL backplate ways less than most BCs.

Thw wing and backplate dry quicker so you can get packed sooner.

And for those who only dive a few times per year, should they stop diving, the backplate and wing has a better salvage value (ebay) than most BCs. The backplate and wing will fit virtually anyone. One size can accomodate all but the most extreme size differences. Most BCs can't do that. I would say the backplate and wing is a better investment for these people.

I understand this impotant consumer information and I have far fewer than 20 years experience and I am not an instructor. All it takes is a little reasonable thinking to figure this stuff out. Sounds like someone sold someone a lot of bad information. Do a little research and/or testing and this stuff will become very clear.

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...


I guess my point with the back plate and wings in regards to travel is the weight. I failed to mention that. The airlines today want to charge you for everything. A BC weighs a few pounds when the plate alone weighs about 8 lbs. + easy. Charter flights (Small planes) usually have a maximum restriction of 30 lbs.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

I do not consider myself a hardcore DIR diver, but I have taken the GUE Fundamentals course.

In my opinion it is a truly remarkable course which would benefit any diver who wishes to improve their diving abilities, regardless of their past experience.

If you can get past the "DIR" controversy and simply focus on the "Fundamentals" part, you will discover it to be an eye-opening experience which is packed with different points of view.

Recognizing that the DIR controversy is not going to go away, in spite of the controversy - which is unfortunate - I strongly recommend that divers who are interested in improving their basic underwater skills take the GUE Fundamentals course. You need not purchase new equipment to take the course, you can generally rent it (depending on where you take the course...this can be arranged in advance, also.)

The Fundamentals course will not turn you into a DIR fanatic. It will offer many interesting insights. If you are enthusiastic about scuba diving, then this course will add significantly to your abilities.

Regards,

Doc

 

[JohnF]

For those who don't know about it, Scott Koplin (thru Oxycheq) has designed a travel plate made of stainless steel and a matching STA. I believe the two pieces together weigh in at under 3# and, when combined with a small wing it packs as slick or better than any BCD on the market. I happen to have a 27# Halcyon, because last year when I was shopping it was the best solution on the market.

And talk about versatile. I took it with me to Mexico in January to do a cavern course. My instructor and I agreed that it would be a plus for me to do it in full cave gear (for the experience). He was skeptical about putting doubles etc on this little bitty plate but it worked great. Absolutely no compromise. And now I'm trying it with my new set of steel doubles up here in the cold water.

JohnF

 

[BCS]

Sorry CBF. Didn't mean to "cut" you...I was only wondering where the "GO DIVE" comment came from....I'm still wondering...
8lb BP?? My aluminum BP is 2.5lbs w/harness and buckle. I travel often to teach. I also have 2 regs, BP/harness/wing/canister light, fins, drysuit and have yet to run into a problem concerning the weight. Regardless of the weight issue, the big reason for the BP/wing is for the advantage it gives us over the jacket in the water, not in the packing (although that is not an issue either)...I do not choose equipment to dive with based solely on how it packs in my suitcase. I choose it based on how it performs on the dive. Then I plan my packing accordingly.
CBF, I am not "complaining about people complaining" I am criticizing the people that have never received training from GUE criticizing the program based on prejudice, and that is how I view this poll from your partner (Mossie). I have yet to see anyone with actual experience w/GUE's program lend any creedence to the opinion that we are "fanatics" and we follow a dogmatic philosophy. As a matter of fact I have been witness to just the opposite on many occasions. What I mean by that, is that I have met and even spoken with divers that were completely against anything GUE had to say based solely on some preconceived idea of what GUE is all about, only to have these people do a complete 180 after one dive with a GUE instructor. I should actually thank all you antagonists out there, because without you my business would need much more publicizing...thanks to you and your biased, uneducated opinions, GUE remains on the "hot topics" list and that means I keep receiving inquiries for more training...just to see what the big fuss is all about...I don't really need to "sell" or defend GUE, you guys do it for me...especially when students see us in the water together......oops, I was on my "high horse" again...

 

[docmartin]

although i don't think the intention of the original post was to spark a discussion on the packability of a bc i just can't help chiming in. my main motivation for buying a bp/wing was actually how small it packs. no comparison to your standard bc. the weight is a non-issue. the ss bp weighs 6#. add the wing at a pound or so. that's a total of about 7#. my old bc, an oceanic chute size m, weighs 6.5#. my wife's seaquest diva in xs weighs 5#. therefore, the difference in weight is not worth mentioning. and that's with a ss bp. now take aluminum and you are even saving weight. therefore, the weight debate does not hold any water.
furthermore, yes it is true that some island hoppers have weight restrictions. so what? generally, you can pay extra per pound for additional weight. the charge is inconsequential for a few extra pounds ($0.50-2 per pound).
finally, if you want to save weight when you pack consider full foot fins for tropical destinations and bring fast drying clothes (coolmax etc.). when we go diving we don't mind the island look. all we bring are fast drying pants with zippers to make them into shorts, 3 or 4 coolmax t-shirts and coolmax underwear. that way you can wash your clothes and they dry in no time. no need to bring a fresh t-shirt for every day. it also handles sweat much better than cotton.

 

[cornfed]

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...

A BC weighs a few pounds when the plate alone weighs about 8 lbs. + easy. Charter flights (Small planes) usually have a maximum restriction of 30 lbs.

What do you recommend for those people that like small islands that are scuba divers? Small Islands that only small charter flights can get to.

An AL backplate.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Regarding the poll ... I think both answers to the question are correct ones. Of course GUE is packaging and marketing their product to make money ... why else do it? However, it's also a good, solid product that offers benefit to the diver. There's a whole lot more to it than that as well.

Doc Intrepid once bubbled...

If you can get past the "DIR" controversy and simply focus on the "Fundamentals" part, you will discover it to be an eye-opening experience which is packed with different points of view.

Recognizing that the DIR controversy is not going to go away, in spite of the controversy - which is unfortunate - I strongly recommend that divers who are interested in improving their basic underwater skills take the GUE Fundamentals course. You need not purchase new equipment to take the course, you can generally rent it (depending on where you take the course...this can be arranged in advance, also.)

The Fundamentals course will not turn you into a DIR fanatic. It will offer many interesting insights. If you are enthusiastic about scuba diving, then this course will add significantly to your abilities.

Regards,

Doc

I haven't taken the DIR-F. I have, however, read The Fundamentals of Better Diving ... which is the text associated with that class. After reading the book, giving some thought to how the material is presented, and asking questions of other DIR divers, I am convinced that much of the controversy is intentional. JJ often chooses to word his thoughts in controversial ways ... essentially "caricaturizing" traditional teaching methods and diver configurations to make a point of why the DIR way is better. That's called "salesmanship", and is completely understandable. After all, GUE is competing with the proverbial 800-lb gorillas of the dive industry, and the controversy around their DIR method helps them get noticed. And it's succeeding. How many of us would have never even heard of DIR were it not for the controversial conversations that get spawned on Internet forums like this one?

Now, I often find the controversy as objectionable as the next (non-DIR) guy. I am skeptical about some of what's in the "package". But overall, it's a pretty good thing. My diving skills, equipment, and how I configure myself for diving are constantly evolving as my skills improve and I increase the range of places and conditions I'll dive in. Many of the changes I make are either similar to DIR, or a direct result of my interaction with DIR divers ... I'll borrow what I can use. That, after all, is what those who created DIR did when putting their own package together.

I will say that I wish JJ would find other ways to market his product ... but as to the product itself, I find very few things to object to. And most of those I reject have more to do with their applicablity to my style of diving than anything else.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[cornfed]

JohnF once bubbled...
I happen to have a 27# Halcyon, because last year when I was shopping it was the best solution on the market.

"Have"? So you got it back?

 

[Uncle Pug]

... by a new account... or an old account using a new account.

And as much as I hate feeding trolls... allow me to toss this bone under the bridge.

GUE is not marketed very well anywhere.

IF they were trying to capture market share they should have followed the PADI format. IF they wanted to sell big buck gear to newbies then they should have followed the typical LDS format where one of the OW classroom sessions is a sales pitch in the showroom.

Instead they rely on word of mouth from super satisfied students to spread the word... much of which happens on the internet.

And of course the continual trolling by the *chip on the shoulder anti-DIR because their acronym hurts my feelings* crowd doesn't hurt at all either.

 

[Custer]

Mossie once bubbled...
Hi everyone!

Just curious about what your opinion might be regarding Global Underwater Explorers (GUE) and all its associated equipment etc etc?

Do you think it's diving related "common-sense" formalized, packaged and marketed or something that's really good and trying to impart new knowledge to the diving community w/o trying to $$sell you something...

Do share how "fanatic" the level of fascination with it is in your area and within your dive community!

You have to assess the problem in more detail, and realize the difference between GUE, DIR and WKPP. You've sorta lumped them together.

GUE doesn't sell equipment, and the equipment it requires is not exclusively available from associated businesses.

You'll hear little or no criticizm of GUE from anyone who is actually involved with it, or has recieved their training.

All the noise comes from people who's merit badge and patch collection are threatened by GUE's superior requirements and standards.

Balance that out with the knowlege that GUE can't be compared to other mainstream agencies, because they aren't and never will be big, making tighter quality control acheivable, and that they only train divers who are already experienced to some degree.

It's not a big trick to teach a diver to dive.

Their classes are expensive and selective, and will fail you without regard, meaning that those who choose them for training are there for knowlege, and not the C-card.

Especially in OW, there are very few things GUE or DIR has to offer that aren't in a PADI OW manual. They freely admit this (or at least that many componenets of their "holistic" approach aren't original).

I'm not a GUE or DIR diver.

I dive wreck/tek with GUE-DIR divers.