Jacket inflate vs Back inflate

[tbone1004]

You can adjust the wings, and they tend to be more comfortable to wear with thick exposure protection, you may end up diving doubles and they're best for that. The lack of squeeze around the waist is a huge plus... I'd consider a Transpac instead of back inflate. That way you can change the wings out. if you switch to doubles. You can also get a smaller travel wing if you go to the Caribbean or other warm water conditions. Keep the same harness settings with different inflation requirements

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Why is it that back inflates would be more popular in cooler water?

In a 3 mm wet suit the lead needed to sink and the buoyancy swing due compression are both much less than with a 2-piece 7 mm wet suit. A 2-piece 7mm is already constricting and at depth the extra lead needed to sink all that rubber necessitates more air in the bladder, so I guess there is a double squeeze.

Due to the really nice weather in warm water locations the residents may spend more time active compared to the colder outside cubicle world, so the typical warm water resident diver may have less personal insulation as well, so again less lead, less vest squeeze.

In a dry suit you keep a layer of air around the body so a vest would be a second air layer around the body, and from what I hear there are still extra weighting needs compared to the warm water diver.

That being said, I know more than a couple experienced but well insulated divers wearing 7 mm full wet suits who dive vest BC's.

Then there is availability/price. Every Island I have lived on there are rental operators selling their 1-3 year old rental gear for 50% of msrp or lower. We would have to pay full price for BI, or BP/W, and the vests do the job just fine, so why spend extra money for limited to non existent benefits?

 

[Dyno Bill]

In a 3 mm wet suit the lead needed to sink and the buoyancy swing due compression are both much less than with a 2-piece 7 mm wet suit. A 2-piece 7mm is already constricting and at depth the extra lead needed to sink all that rubber necessitates more air in the bladder, so I guess there is a double squeeze.

Due to the really nice weather in warm water locations the residents may spend more time active compared to the colder outside cubicle world, so the typical warm water resident diver may have less personal insulation as well, so again less lead, less vest squeeze.

In a dry suit you keep a layer of air around the body so a vest would be a second air layer around the body, and from what I hear there are still extra weighting needs compared to the warm water diver.

That being said, I know more than a couple experienced but well insulated divers wearing 7 mm full wet suits who dive vest BC's.

Then there is availability/price. Every Island I have lived on there are rental operators selling their 1-3 year old rental gear for 50% of msrp or lower. We would have to pay full price for BI, or BP/W, and the vests do the job just fine, so why spend extra money for limited to non existent benefits?

I have some old friends that have a tourist dive business on Maui. Scuba Luv Maui

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

you may end up diving doubles and they're best for that.

In the real world, when a new diver with less than 24 dives asks about suitable dive equipment, how often do you think future use of double tanks is applicable?

In my decade of warm water dive instruction/guiding I have only met a dozen or so divers who own doubles (half of them SB members), and even less that dive them more than once a month.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I have some old friends that have a tourist dive business on Maui. Scuba Luv Maui

Yes, I know of Steve Madaras, who kind of moved here from Catalina Island. If you look at every picture on the Scuba Luv Maui web site there might be one BI BC, but I think it is that diver's personal gear, not Steve's.

 

[tbone1004]

sorry, need to remember that where I dive and who taught me isn't the real diving world sometimes... We put our students on doubles after they complete their rescue diver training, which is less than a year after they started diving with us. They train on Halcyon BP/W's, and switching to doubles is nothing more than learning valve drills and getting used to a long hose. Nothing else changes, they frog kick from day 1, keep octo on their necks etc etc, so nothing really new to them.

The OP said he plans on diving a lot and lives in California... Hardly warm water. Which means probably moving to drysuit etc, and I know 1 diver that dives a jacket in a drysuit.

Either way, the doubles was just an option in case he moves forward in diving. I still recommend some sort of BP/W setup for any cold water just because of the whole potential for drysuits.

 

[Dyno Bill]

sorry, need to remember that where I dive and who taught me isn't the real diving world sometimes... We put our students on doubles after they complete their rescue diver training, which is less than a year after they started diving with us. They train on Halcyon BP/W's, and switching to doubles is nothing more than learning valve drills and getting used to a long hose. Nothing else changes, they frog kick from day 1, keep octo on their necks etc etc, so nothing really new to them.

The OP said he plans on diving a lot and lives in California... Hardly warm water. Which means probably moving to drysuit etc, and I know 1 diver that dives a jacket in a drysuit.

Either way, the doubles was just an option in case he moves forward in diving. I still recommend some sort of BP/W setup for any cold water just because of the whole potential for drysuits.

Dumb question, what is the technical advantage of using a bp/w in a drysuit over a rear inflate style bc. I understand a diver is suspended from the rear inflation style bc in he prone position sorta like a high wing compared to a low wing small aircraft but what physical advantage comes from a bp/w set up in trim and diving in general?

 

[elmer fudd]

Dumb question, what is the technical advantage of using a bp/w in a drysuit over a rear inflate style bc. I understand a diver is suspended from the rear inflation style bc in he prone position sorta like a high wing compared to a low wing small aircraft but what physical advantage comes from a bp/w set up in trim and diving in general?

Just speaking for myself, as someone who went from a back inflate to a bp/w, but I think the two are just variations on the same idea. Comparing my Zeagle Ranger to my bp/w, my rig is about 6 lbs. lighter. This is because my Ranger weighed a couple pounds more, (not counting the steel bp), and had over 3 lbs. of positive buoyancy in the harness. The bp/w IS more streamlined. There's just a lot less buckles and dangly straps on it. The bp/w also stays put better since the bp spreads the tank over a larger more stable area and the crotch strap prevents it from riding up.

Having said all that though, the Ranger had it's own wing and I used it with my bp for about 15 or 20 dives before I found enough money to buy a replacement. There are bp/w's with harnesses that are just as buoyant and have as many danglies as the one on my Ranger and I imagine I could even fit a bp to the Ranger, call it a bp/w and be 100% correct.

They really are very similar in concept. For me it's more a matter of execution than anything else. I prefer a really basic bp/w and I think that most of the "improvements" on the idea detract from it's utility.

 

[tbone1004]

SS backplate to take weight off of the belt. 8lbs with a STA, 6lbs in doubles or without one.
Trim and what not is over thought IMHO. If you're good, you should be able to hold good trim no matter where the weight is. If you put 8lbs of lead on your feet or knees that's one thing, but no matter if the weights are on your shoulders, your waist or somewhere in between, you should be no problem controlling trim.
I like the SS plates because it means I don't need a weight belt 90% of the time. If I have to dive singles with a drysuit or a 7mm john then I still need some, or if I'm diving AL80's with just about any wet suit I'll need 2-6 lbs.

So as far as trim goes, there is no advantage between back inflate and wing. They're the same thing for all intents and purposes. A Transpac with a 35lb wing and a back inflate BC with 35lbs will feel almost identical. The difference is a Transpac can switch out to an 80lb wing and back with no change to the harness itself *add Stab plates for doubles, and remove cam bands, but woopty doo*. The d-rings and adjustments stay the same. A harness will also very likely outlive the wing, and not having to change the whole BC if you get it punctured or worn out is always nice financially.

 

[Dyno Bill]

It's funny, back when I started diving the basic rig was a moulded plastic back pack with either a single or a dual tank mounting band that clamped the bottle firmly to the pack. It used 2 shoulder straps and a waste strap that latched. We used a horse collar basically for surface flotation or you could orally inflate it a bit underwater. We wore a weight belt that was donned after all other gear was in place so you could ditch it easily. And after maybe 20- 30 years later and 4 million versions of user friendly flotation devices created basically for creature comfort so many people want to basically go back to the beginning. Of course the wing is an add on to the original.