Jacket inflate vs Back inflate

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In this current thread 'Where to put your SMB', a forum member is asking advice on where to store his DSMB.

He has a jacket BCD... a Mares Icon. It's very bulky and ten times more complex than a BP&W. There are a hundred straps and wires and bits of string that make it look a mess.

And for all that complexity and bulk..... no space to store a core piece of dive equipment like a DSMB??!!??

It's a disgrace...


Mares Icon. Poodle Jacket that you can't fit a DSMB on...
417254_icon.png

 
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For anyone.... anyone who can count....

Complex..... you could define that as design complexity. The quantity of material components. The amount of stitching etc etc.

Complex Design
mares-icon..jpg


Minimalist (un-complex) Design
DSCF5068.JPG
 
I got the BC in the mail yesterday. I used up a tank in the pool practicing maneuvering around and stuff. I love it. I have to say I think I got an amazing deal. It was 190, plus 35 for shipping, and it came with a sweet knife attached to the left side and a mares led light. Looks brand new. No leaks. I kind of wish it had small weight pouches in the back on the tank strap, but ultimately it can hold more than enough weight to get me down on an empty tank (not that I would want too) with a 7mm wetsuit.

Question. Would it work to wear a 2/3mm suit under a 7mm suit? Kind of a poor mans way to stay warm during the cold winter months? I'd hate to have cold water temps keep me out of diving for a couple months. No way I can afford a drysuit anytime soon.
 
I got the BC in the mail yesterday. I used up a tank in the pool practicing maneuvering around and stuff. I love it. I have to say I think I got an amazing deal. It was 190, plus 35 for shipping, and it came with a sweet knife attached to the left side and a mares led light. Looks brand new. No leaks. I kind of wish it had small weight pouches in the back on the tank strap, but ultimately it can hold more than enough weight to get me down on an empty tank (not that I would want too) with a 7mm wetsuit.

Question. Would it work to wear a 2/3mm suit under a 7mm suit? Kind of a poor mans way to stay warm during the cold winter months? I'd hate to have cold water temps keep me out of diving for a couple months. No way I can afford a drysuit anytime soon.
Mastersniper,
I had someone pm me about your upcoming solo dive into a very cold, very low vis, and heavily fishing line entangling lake....on some sunken town.....while the dive could have an appeal to some as "frozen history" or a form of Indianna Jones adventure....this is the kind of dive that requires black water training, if not cave training as well, along with suitable exposure suit for the temperature, and sufficient gas in case of an entanglement.

As you are now asking about the wearing of 2 wet suits, the first issue that jumps out at me, is that you could be down at the bottom--perhaps you could get back to me with the max depth, but even if it is only 60 feet deep, if you find your self in a silt-out, with absolute zero vis, how to you expect to be able to control your buoyancy, knowing that the suit(s) will become exponentially more bouyant, as you rise higher in the water collum--potentially not even knowing you are rising( it is a black water liklihood). You need to be aware that this is a scenaro where you could become a "missle" headed fast to the surface...and even if you feel the ear pressure difference, and begin dumping, you could have a huge sea-saw up and down issue going on, with no real idea of your depth. In a high viz ocean environment, a diver with such a 2 wet suit combo as you are describing, could experience dramatic bouyancy shift with accidental accent which was not noticed by them--until they are really moving up fast---but they would have visual cues, while you would not.
This is not about how good your natural coordination and "natural diving skills" are...this gets to a part of diving that is not intuitive, and one that is very dangerous.
Classes today for Open Water students are so easy that almost ANYONE can be certified. The c-card you just got, pretty much means a diver with one, might survive in a swimming pool by themself for 30 minutes...it also is like a "learners permit", in that it lets you dive with experienced divers--who should help mentor you over time.
If you had gone through an extensive black water course for Public Safety Divers, or if you had gone through a real Cave Diving course, you would have been faced with blackout/zero viz conditions, and, you would have had to deal with entanglments and lift issues--but with an instructor there to help you if needed.

There are so many things that could happen on a dive in this lake, that a new diver could not possibly imagine. You are on a discussion board now with a huge number of very experienced divers....many of these once felt invulnerable, and much better than their diving peers. Almost without exception, you could hear stories froim each one of these exceptional divers, on how they almost bought the farm early in their diving, by believing they could do whatever they wanted. I certainly have plenty of these myself :) Unfortunately, many divers that began this way, did end up dead....and that leaves the rest of us to attempt to persuade others not to be as stupid as the dead divers ( or us ) were. The reason cave diving is so rigorous, is because of the huge death rate caving used to have...silt-outs being a huge precursor to a sudden increase in new problems facing the diver, til they were overwhelmed and lost the ability to get out of their predicament.
You really need to be in a complete blackout, and tangled, with limited movement of your hands and body, to have any sense of what could happen, and how you would need to solve this....while training for this exists in Cave and Public Safety Diving, it does not exist for open water students.

Regards,
DanV
 
Mastersniper,
I had someone pm me about your upcoming solo dive into a very cold, very low vis, and heavily fishing line entangling lake....on some sunken town.....

Woohoo.... Darwin's Law in action!

This sounds very much like a high percentage lethality scenario.

Mastersniper, if this is true, you should take a friend along (even a non-diver) to record the event. That way, your family could pay for your funeral by selling to footage to Discovery Channel...

DanV... if this is true, I doubt it is worth explaining anything to the guy. He's literally just finished his OW course - where he was educated and tested on safe and conservative diving. He's read and signed the 'Safe Diving Practices' form. He's choosing to immediately start ignoring everything he has just been taught.

Perhaps he's just suicidal and crying out for attention?

He'll do what he chooses.... and the consequences of his decisions are most likely to cost him dearly.
 
I'm aware that it would add buoyancy, and that I would have to add more weight. I'm not thinking about doing so on this trip. It just popped into my mind as a possible solution for december - february. The buoyancy issue is common sense. I was thinking more along the lines of perhaps an issue with 2 layers of neoprene rubbing together, maybe might cause them to wear down quicker? Perhaps a severe decrease in flexibility and movement, so much so that its not worth diving?

I've found myself in an almost zero viz experience already for about a minute or so, down about 15 or 20 feet. I could not see my gloves extended maybe more than a foot or 2 away from my mask. My eyes did not leave my depth gauge for more than a second at a time to make sure I wasn't starting to ascend. I'm aware of exponential increase in buoyancy, and with 2 wetsuits I can control an ascent, even in a zero viz environment. I can I can I can. I'm not the clumsy newbie that descends falling backwords until their tank smacks into the bottom and explodes into a cloud of silt. Im quite comfortable at controlling my buoyancy. None of you have dived at this lake, have you?

And yes Andy, I'm totally suicidal. It's my dream to go out of this world underwater.

Depth should be 45 feet.

I've had this discussion, I'm not having it here again. There is an entire thread devoted to it. Anybody else with an opinion, find the thread in the norcal section and read it before you open your mouth. (or, type with your fingers...)
 
Thank you don, for potentially flooding My inbox.

Edit: actually, I take that back. Unless you live in the norcal area or have dived lake camanche before, I literally don't want to hear your opinion. I already talked to plenty of people on here, all of whom were very helpful and polite giving me advice and such. I don't mean to seem rude, but I'm exhausted on the topic. Don't post here thinking your going to tell me something I haven't already thought about, discussed, planned out, and made a decision on. Because I can guarantee you, I've thought about it. Unless your that Devon guy. People tell me he knows everything to do with anything.
 
I've found myself in an almost zero viz experience already for about a minute or so, down about 15 or 20 feet. I could not see my gloves extended maybe more than a foot or 2 away from my mask. My eyes did not leave my depth gauge for more than a second at a time to make sure I wasn't starting to ascend.

You think THAT is zero viz?!? :rofl3:

Oh boy, are you in for a shock...

Unless you live in the norcal area or have dived lake camanche before, I literally don't want to hear your opinion..... Don't post here thinking your going to tell me something I haven't already thought about, discussed, planned out, and made a decision on. Because I can guarantee you, I've thought about it....

I don't care what you do. But I do care what sort of message goes out on this board. If you are planning to solo dive, in a hazardous location, immediately after your OW course, then your actions and decision making fly in the face of every recommendation ,procedure and ounce of common sense that was provided to you during your scuba training.

I want to be absolutely clear in my condemnation of your plans and your attitude, not for your good, but for the good of any other scuba diver who may visit this forum for advice and guidance from the dive community.

I agree with you, that there should be no further debate on this. If you're sad and desperate for attention and looking to draw attention to yourself, then I won't oblige you.
 
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I got the BC in the mail yesterday. I used up a tank in the pool practicing maneuvering around and stuff. I love it. I have to say I think I got an amazing deal.

master00sniper, this thread has gotten pretty heated. I'll take a step back and welcome you to the wonderful world of owning your own gear. Anything that helps you dive, even if it is a pair planks tied to your feet, is great.

I don't know anything about your proposed dive site, so I won't comment other than to say go slow and stick close to your buddy. Dive with someone who knows the site and the conditions.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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