Jacket BC or Wing BC

[danvolker]

Sorry I did not make it clear I have a rear inflate BC. Is this not considered a wing?

Not really..the harness and backplate are typically quite different. The fit is very different, the ability for custom perfection much less in the rear inflate bc..

 

[Splitlip]

Marketing is marketing is marketing..fine! What it seems to you does not matter! Bottom line is this. The Stabilizing Jacket is non-adjustable & allows the air bubble to move freely around the shoulder and all BCD do not allow this, in fact almost none do, aside from the Scubapro stabilizing jacket. This jacket is the most stable in any given position. If you are face up position and overweighted (as most are) a wing can be absolutely annoying. On the surface the Stabilizing jacket has no equal as most bcd's & wings will not be nearly as comfortable.

Those of you find that the jacket squeezes you are either overweight (FAT), overweighted (very likely as this seems to be the norm now) or both (most likely).

The Scubapro Stabilizer jacket was one of the first if not the first bcd available for divers. I think it was available back in the late 70's My first bcd was an early 80s model stab jacket, it is orange and IMO still the best BC I have. The other jackets, adjustable were competitive offerings that could not copy the original design due to patent issues. In the end the adjustable shoulder became more popular due to price & it's adjust-ability; not because it was more stable as it is not!

Anyone who started diving in the 70's and prior was taught and practiced proper weighting out. You had to get this right or you could have problems for there were no BC's (there were horse collars but that is another matter). Tanks were steel & did not go positive when low. If you were properly weighted and physically fit you were good to go and had a very unencumbered diving experience relative to the hyper-equipped diver of today. I see few people who focus on getting weighting absolutely correct as they instead rely on the BC to take up the slack. These are often the ones who complain about the jackets, especially the Stabilizer jacket "squeezing" them. Then they end up going to wings and many then complain about or get all befuddled on the surface because they are again overweighted. Then they add trim weights in the back and over here & there until they are "perfect". Enter "integrated weights" nice idea, was thought of by most of us back in the 80's when pockets on the BC first appeared. I often just grabbed a few rocks on a shore dive and stuck them in the pockets of the Stab jacket when I forgot my weight belt. But now with integrated weights the BC's become IMO a burden. I do not understand why people are adverse to the weight belt? It places the weight on the part of the body that can most easily bear extra weight, the waist/hips. The right hand release is universal so anyone will know how to release them quickly if need be. When i am diving with someone that uses these heavy weighted BC's I find that I end up having to help them on the boat, lift their BC's over the gunnel's or onto the swim platform, what a pain. When i am on a charter boat alone I dread being buddied with another diver who dons too much heavy equipment for the reef or artificial "wreck" that we are about swim around. If i am not the last person back on the boat, I know that I will be hefting someones "rig" with an additional 25-40lb of weight; not good on the back!

This is again all just opinion in the end, I have mine thats for sure and all of you have yours!

Old post I know, but I like.

 

[Robjames112]

I really prefer a wing to vest. I've used both (though wing more) and I prefer the wing. I find it easier to trim and streamline.

 

[mictrik]

I really prefer a wing to vest. I've used both (though wing more) and I prefer the wing. I find it easier to trim and streamline.

An honest and fair comment! I actually like both and use either depending on the situation. In fact for relatively shallow dives in waters I have known since I was a child I choose neither and dive with a J-Valve, backpack and regulator. Nothing beats this in my opinion; no BC to rinse, totally unencumbered and minimal weight. I will use the stabilizer jacket anytime I anticipate that I may be on the surface for any length of time, i have used it with doubles and it is good because of it's lift capacity but i do prefer backplates for doubles. When choosing a wing i think the smallest to get the job done is the best. in terms of stream line I disagree that the backplate/ wing setup is inherently more streamlines than a Scubapro stabilizer jacket (classic). It all comes down to how you are configured and weighted. When minimally weighted the Stab jacket allows the tank to sit very close to the back affording a very streamlined profile because the bladder is hardly inflated. A backplate typically has the tank sit further from ones back but it can also be configured to be very streamlined when a minimal wing is affixed and the diver is not overweighted. I think the backpack / single tank is probably the most streamlined scuba rig.

 

[j2s]

It does not matter what everyone else is using, use what makes you comfortable. Try both and decide which one suits you.

Agreed....I use both....Which ever one suits my needs for the type environment I'm diving....Jacket for casual shallow/ow dives...bp/wing [single or double] for cavern/caves and a double bladder for deeper/wreck dives.....No one style is going to fill all needs.....Which ever one works best for you and the environment your diving......

 

[-hh]

Sorry I did not make it clear I have a rear inflate BC. Is this not considered a wing?

Yes, although some "purists" will claim otherwise. Not to worry - - from a basic physics standpoint, a BC is simply a device that holds a bag of air, and there's only historically been three locations that this bag has been positioned:

a) In front of the diver (horsecollar)
b) Behind the diver (wing)
c) Surrounding the diver (jacket)

The difference between a BP/W and a "Rear Inflate" is effectively a pedantic hair-splitting exercise that tries to make a big deal out of the differences in the harness configuration that attaches that 'bag of air' to the diver, which are utterly insignificant for the general purpose (and especially novice) Rec diver.


FWIW, over the past four decades, I've used all three basic styles. I've literally just switched this spring from using a Wing back to a Jacket, and am satisified with the change.



-hh

 

[danvolker]

Yes, although some "purists" will claim otherwise. Not to worry - - from a basic physics standpoint, a BC is simply a device that holds a bag of air, and there's only historically been three locations that this bag has been positioned:

a) In front of the diver (horsecollar)
b) Behind the diver (wing)
c) Surrounding the diver (jacket)

The difference between a BP/W and a "Rear Inflate" is effectively a pedantic hair-splitting exercise that tries to make a big deal out of the differences in the harness configuration that attaches that 'bag of air' to the diver, which are utterly insignificant for the general purpose (and especially novice) Rec diver.


FWIW, over the past four decades, I've used all three basic styles. I've literally just switched this spring from using a Wing back to a Jacket, and am satisified with the change.



-hh

I am thinking that HH would not consider any "useful or significant" differences between a Lamborghini Galardo and a Volkswagon Beetle. Both get you from point A to B..Neither has lots of space for suitcases or storage, and any difference in performance would be only of interest to the "purists", but certainly not to HH.

Many of us have been diving for 3 or 4 decades, and have tried everything. Not just HH

Some divers care about moving around and being able to stay with large marine life ( say..turtles, Goliath Groupers, dolphins, Manta Rays, other interesting life that moves around just a little faster than the average poorly configured and inefficient scuba diver. These divers that want to follow the large marine life, don't see themselves as purists, just functional, compared to those who are not.... Some others, are actually concerned with being able to hover motionless, with zero effort--whether for photography , sightseeing macro life, or exploration level penetrations....these divers also will care about the differences HH attributes as important only to "purists"...

And then there are the lazy divers, that don't really want to work to go anywhere, regardless of what they could see. Also, they don't really care if they can hover motionless, or if they tend to "trim" , head up and feet down. They pretty much just go with the flow....This could be a huge chunk of the diving public, so HH does have a point...that many people really wont care about the differences. DEMA has counted on this being the majority of divers for over 30 years now.

Figure out which group you would fall into, and the choice will be much more apparent.

 

[-hh]

I am thinking that HH would not consider any "useful or significant" differences between a Lamborghini Galardo and a Volkswagon Beetle. Both get you from point A to B..Neither has lots of space for suitcases or storage, and any difference in performance would be only of interest to the "purists", but certainly not to HH.

At least the Coefficient of Drag of both these cars has actually been quantitiatively measured, Dan.

Some divers care about moving around and being able to stay with large marine life ( say..turtles, Goliath Groupers, dolphins, Manta Rays, other interesting life that moves around just a little faster than the average poorly configured and inefficient scuba diver...

Some divers actually learn marine biology too: Cetaceans can do 35mph, whereas Olympic gold-medalist Michael Phelps swam the 200-meter freestyle in 1:42 (4.7 mph). A dive tank & gear slows that down even further, to which gear streamlining isn't going to make a huge difference...even freediving fins notwithstanding. The facts are that sea creatures only get "caught up to" by stealth/planning, a dive scooter (occasionally), because they were interested in you, or because they simply didn't care.



-hh

 

[danvolker]

At least the Coefficient of Drag of both these cars has actually been quantitiatively measured, Dan.




Some divers actually learn marine biology too: Cetaceans can do 35mph, whereas Olympic gold-medalist Michael Phelps swam the 200-meter freestyle in 1:42 (4.7 mph). A dive tank & gear slows that down even further, to which gear streamlining isn't going to make a huge difference...even freediving fins notwithstanding. The facts are that sea creatures only get "caught up to" by stealth/planning, a dive scooter (occasionally), because they were interested in you, or because they simply didn't care.



-hh

I have many decades of diving with large marine life that disputes this....sure bottle nose dolphins may hit 35mph....but they spend most of their time cruising at about 4 or 5 mph....I have stayed with a pod of 30 bottle nose on a foraging dive for over half an hour, so that would be one case I can prove with the video

Logerhead or hawksbill turtles CAN swim much faster than any diver, but there easy cruising pace is just faster than the divers with poor configurations, bad fins, and little or no fitness. As you know, I could go on about this

 

[Teamcasa]

...differences between a Lamborghini Galardo and a Volkswagon Beetle. .

I would not equate a BP/W to a Lamborghini either.. Heck, just add a crotch strap to a properly fitted back-inflate and the difference may be more akin to comparing Nike to Adidas running shoes.

Many of us have been diving for 3 or 4 decades, and have tried everything.

True

Some divers care about moving around and being able to stay with large marine life ( say..turtles, Goliath Groupers, dolphins, Manta Rays, other interesting life that moves around just a little faster than the average poorly configured and inefficient scuba diver.

I don’t think any diver, regardless of their skill or gear configuration could keep up with any of those animals unless that animal lets us. (But you knew that already)

These divers that want to follow the large marine life, don't see themselves as purists, just functional, compared to those who are not.... Some others, are actually concerned with being able to hover motionless, with zero effort--whether for photography , sightseeing macro life, or exploration level penetrations....these divers also will care about the differences HH attributes as important only to "purists"....

Well then you can call me a purist then, however I seem to be able to do all of the above regardless of the gear I use. I've said this many times, gear selection will not make you a better diver, training and practice will.

Does a particular type of diving mandate certain gear? Sure, but If I'm not diving in a cave, penetrating a wreck or diving to depths that require doubles and extra gas, I can pretty much use any gear I want, safely and skillfully observe, photograph or shoot video all the while hovering motionless for as long as I have the gas.

And then there are the lazy divers, that don't really want to work to go anywhere, regardless of what they could see. Also, they don't really care if they can hover motionless, or if they tend to "trim" , head up and feet down. They pretty much just go with the flow....This could be a huge chunk of the diving public, so HH does have a point...that many people really wont care about the differences.

There you go equating gear selection with skill or a desire to be a better diver again. Lazy divers are just that, lazy - despite the gear they strap on.