It doesn't get a lot nearer than this

[BrotherBear]

As the operator of a 37 foot power boat lets look at the other side of this.

From more than 100 yards away in the open ocean you are invisible as a diver - even with a dive flag. If I am driving directly toward you odds are I won't see you until you are 20 - 30 yards away (depends on the boat but I don't have a flying bridge so even closer for me) - and that is if I am paying very close attention. Rough water or waves of any kind make it even worse. I have managed to drive over a 20 foot log 16" through that was floating just barely at the surface in relatively calm water. This in an area where floating debris is a constant hazard so I was paying extremely close attention. Didn't see it until it was 10 feet from the boat - too late to do anything but pray to the gods of bent props.

You are very hard to see swimming on the surface. Screaming will have absolutely no effect at all - none - I can't hear you. There is a reason boat horns are very loud. Waving a dive flag - good idea - making white water (swimming hard enough to splash etc.) good idea, unless there is a lot of white water around you. Anything that breaks the pattern in the water. All of this depending on where the sun is - if I am driving toward the sun then you are essentially invisible no matter what you do.

Descending is by far the best option. If he was coming directly for you from that far away just as likely that was his course and he never saw you as that he was aiming for you and was trying to scare you. A boat is not like a car it wanders on course so the amount that you can swim perpendicular to a boat's course from 100 yards away is well within the amount that a boat will track so the fact that it seemed to change course toward you while it indicates that he might have been aiming for you it is not conclusive - could have been just bad luck that the boat tracked that way.

If you are in a place where there is likely to be, or even the possibility of boat traffic - you MUST be able to descend at any time. Otherwise don't dive there. Depending on a boat operator seeing you is a bad idea. It might happen, but it might not, and while it would likely be the operators fault in a boat/diver collision the boat wins every time.

Glad this worked out - as you say it could have been much worse.

I appreciate what you are saying and know what you mean when you say the boat always wins, this is undeniable.
However the fact remains that it is the boat captains responsibility to watch for hazards, particularly divers in the water close to shore in a well known dive area. This boat is local to the area and has been plying these waters for 40 years. And close in at Rockport Harbor is hardly the open ocean.

Where we dive is not a particularly high boat traffic area but it is a popular dive spot and all divers are required to tow flags so a captain who is experienced in these waters should know what to look for. And a captain who doesn't should be steaming slowly enough to watch for divers when traveling that close to shore. It may not be easy to watch for divers but that doesn't relieve you of the responsibility of doing so, even if it might be only their survivors who come after you.

Finally, as was already mentioned, there are plenty of circumstances that can arise unexpectedly forcing a diver to the surface. It seems to me that by your logic we should not be diving in the ocean at all as boats can come by at any time. For that matter most lakes around here have higher boat traffic than this beach so perhaps we shouldn't dive there either? Your reasons for not seeing a flag have nothing to do with the size of the boat, in fact a smaller boat lower to the water should have an even more difficult time. If boats can't be expected to act responsibly and respect a flag...why do we bother to tow one?

 

[AfterDark]

Isn't this what a compass is for? When I dive Rockport or most anywhere else after going under I don't come back up until I'm near my egress and in shallow water. A diver on the surface off Rockport is a target. I'd feel better diving without a flag there. I've got a SMB with a flag sewn on that could be deployed in an emergency ascent.

 

[SeaHorse81]

in a boat/diver collision the boat wins every time.

Seriously good point. It doesn't matter how wrong the operator may have been -- it won't make you less dead when he hits you. I personally think this boat captain sounds likely in the wrong, but care is required by the diver in any event, if for no other reason than it's the diver who has the most to lose. Not fair, but it's reality.

Thanks for the good info on the limitations of what the operator can see; I used to run a boat, myself, and it brought back a lot of memories. Another point for the diver to consider is the rule of thumb that proves so useful when dealing with trucks on the road: If you can't see the operator's face -- either directly or in his mirror -- then he can't possibly see you. This is a big point with boats because the only time a boat travels level (giving the operator full view of the water before him) is when it's just idling along really slow or is up at running speed. Anything in between results in the boat plowing along with the bow up, so the operator can't physically see what's directly in front of the boat, maybe for a considerable distance. It's the operator's responsibility to deal with this of course -- I did it by frequently altering course just for a second so I could see where I was going under such circumstances.

If you see a boat coming toward you and all you see is hull, that is another instance where nothing you can do will get you noticed.

 

[stinggirl]

I'm glad you and your nephew were not harmed.

 

[BrotherBear]

Isn't this what a compass is for? When I dive Rockport or most anywhere else after going under I don't come back up until I'm near my egress and in shallow water. A diver on the surface off Rockport is a target. I'd feel better diving without a flag there. I've got a SMB with a flag sewn on that could be deployed in an emergency ascent.

I'm not sure how an SMB/Flag is any better than towing one in terms of legitimate boaters, but I do see some value in avoiding "drawing fire" from the locals. FWIW diving without a flag in MA is a $50 fine per diver and the Rockport harbor master patrols the beaches in his truck looking for violators. On the other side of the coin he keeps a couple of flags in his office and will lend them if asked.
Oh, yeah, even though why we were on the surface is immaterial to the discussion, I am a fairly good navigator but do occasionally make a mistake (which I can usually correct for underwater), I will continue to strive for perfection in the hopes of measuring up. However my buddy is new, had already signalled half tank and we had been swimming for a few minutes since, I felt that the prudent thing to do was to get a definite bearing and then head back in at a shallower depth. As I pointed out I first thought the boat was the harbor master so we stayed on the surface to see what he wanted.

Seriously good point. It doesn't matter how wrong the operator may have been -- it won't make you less dead when he hits you. I personally think this boat captain sounds likely in the wrong, but care is required by the diver in any event, if for no other reason than it's the diver who has the most to lose. Not fair, but it's reality.

Thanks for the good info on the limitations of what the operator can see; I used to run a boat, myself, and it brought back a lot of memories. Another point for the diver to consider is the rule of thumb that proves so useful when dealing with trucks on the road: If you can't see the operator's face -- either directly or in his mirror -- then he can't possibly see you. This is a big point with boats because the only time a boat travels level (giving the operator full view of the water before him) is when it's just idling along really slow or is up at running speed. Anything in between results in the boat plowing along with the bow up, so the operator can't physically see what's directly in front of the boat, maybe for a considerable distance. It's the operator's responsibility to deal with this of course -- I did it by frequently altering course just for a second so I could see where I was going under such circumstances.

If you see a boat coming toward you and all you see is hull, that is another instance where nothing you can do will get you noticed.

We had a good look at his windshied up until he got close in since he was moving at speed, see above. The point of my posting this was, other than being pissed, in some areas boaters WILL target you for giggles. And, just like motorists v motorcycles, some boaters refuse to operate responsibly and watch for you let alone yield to your right of way.

I'm glad you and your nephew were not harmed.

Thank you and others who have expressed this thought. After a day's reflection I think that from now on I will descend (if possible) if there is the slightest hint of a boat heading my way (defensive diving?) no matter who I think it is. I will also always carry my video camera in case I find myself in a similar situation in the future where descent is not an option, it might help my survivors in their wrongful death suit.

 

[Darnold9999]

Finally, as was already mentioned, there are plenty of circumstances that can arise unexpectedly forcing a diver to the surface. It seems to me that by your logic we should not be diving in the ocean at all as boats can come by at any time. For that matter most lakes around here have higher boat traffic than this beach so perhaps we shouldn't dive there either? Your reasons for not seeing a flag have nothing to do with the size of the boat, in fact a smaller boat lower to the water should have an even more difficult time. If boats can't be expected to act responsibly and respect a flag...why do we bother to tow one?

Yes by my logic you would not want to surface anywhere where there is a reasonable chance of a boat travelling. I stand by that. If there is boat traffic I want either someone on the surface in a boat to warn traffic away - or I will treat the dive as one where surfacing where there is traffic is not an option. By that I mean surfacing at all - for an emergency or as part of the dive plan.

A dive float gives you a false sense of security. I would assume that the boat operator has no idea what the float means. In the 20 hour boating course given around here the dive flag is given exactly 20 seconds of coverage mixed in with the meaning of dozens of other flags, bouys, markers etc. I only remember it because I am a diver - I would bet that not one other person in the class remembered it beyond the end of the day. Dive floats were not even covered - I don't think we use them here. I know I never have - diving in a high traffic area is done from a boat or by returning to your entry point. Boaters that don't take a course have no idea what a dive float or flag is unless they have been educated in some way.

I pass by dozens of floats every season, in deep water and in shallow water. Almost all of them mark crab pots of some kind, a few are mooring floats. Giving them 5 feet of room is lots. I am most concerned with not fouling my props. A dive float would need to be significantly different for me to even pay attention to it, and given the assortment of bleach bottles, balls, tubes etc. in all colours that people use to mark crab pots by different I mean really different.

You can do what you want, but as both a diver and a boat operator I know the limitations and act accordingly. The law is irrelevant to my decision. Did you miss the part about how I managed to run over a log - considerably larger than a diver - while traveling at less than 7 knots - while actively looking for debris in the water. Not cruising along not paying attention but actively looking for such a thing. Now the log was more difficult to see than a dive float, but I was ACTIVELY watching. An operator can easily be distracted for a few seconds and miss you completely, and lots of operators don't pay anywhere near that amount of attention.

Consider a man overboard drill - you are taught to have someone on the boat keep an eye on the person in the water because if you don't, by the time you get the boat turned around you will have lost them and not be able to find them. Yes your flag makes it easier to see you, but I personally would not risk my life on it. You are difficult to see in the water - even if you as an operator ARE paying attention.

IMHO surfacing at all where there is the probability of boat traffic is a bad idea and surfacing without the option of redescending anywhere there is even the possibility of boat traffic is also a bad idea. If that means not diving in a particular spot - then I would skip the dive.

Don't give a rats ass about the law, how things should be, or why I might tow a dive flag or anything else. The fact is that if a boat hits you, you are toast. I assume that the operator can't see me because I know how difficult it is to see something as small as a diver in the water so I figure it is up to me to keep me safe - not rely on a boater's legal liability to watch out for me and for them to know what a dive float means. Same reason I don't step into a crosswalk in front of a moving car unless I have the drivers eye and know that he/she sees me and is stopping. Don't care that I have the right of way. Not relevant.

PS - it never hurts to assume the guy driving the boat is blind drunk.

 

[openmindOW]

I'd rather not out him until I make a final decision on reporting him or contacting him directly.

I disagree. out him now. You have the boat name. He can respond and deny if he wants to. Sometimes, public shame is a good deterrent.

 

[DandyDon]

My original post here was removed, for good reason. :blush: I can certainly understand your feelings, but the most I would do is report him. And, I can see the other side, as there are reasons why he just might not have been able to see you. I try to make sure that I'm negative and can get down fast even with an empty tank as I'd rather risk drowning than a hull & prop, but I usually have my pony for backup.

 

[Green_Manelishi]

First off I am very glad to know you and nephew were not injured.

Boats will "buzz" flags and such at Nubble Light as well. That's why I strive to remain underwater unless I have to surface.

With that said I am wondering why you had a 5 dive buddy 1/4 mile from shore, on the surface, with 50ft of water under his fins? Prolly should remain close by the shore for a while.

 

[Mr.X]

Reporting the incident is important so as to let the town and boaters know that they do not have exclusive rights to the water and that playing with propeller-driven boats is a criminal activity which can only result in only bad things for the diver. I know this first hand and in the UK / Europe / worldwide there are multiple examples of divers being seriously injured, decapitated etc because of idiot boat driving.

Having a Go Pro is a wise investment in that you get to review the dive you were on + if any dumb ____ tries it again you will have conclusive evidence to file a police report. As per Rockport and other Cape Ann communities - there are townies who think they can do as they please irregardless of the law, or anyone's personal safety. Education, or time in a local jail cell would do a lot to wake them up.

On a diving note - I do not take a flag with me when I go diving @ Cape Ann. Also, for the last ten years I go solo and on a scooter. I don't know what the prevailing laws are- but I don't like dragging a target with me + I do not purposely go anywhere near a lobster trap.

Best.

X