Is this a bastard force fin?

[tridacna]

The Tan Delta is a high performance urethane that offers higher rebound rates than the other urethanes that are used in standard and Pro Force Fins. The materials are much more expensive and from what Bob has told me, the failure rate during molding is higher. The Tan Delta fins are individually hand poured - because of the nature of the material, it does not work with with automated injection molding equipment (it sets up too fast). When cured they are transparent and any imperfection in molding is immediately visible to the naked eye (even if it does not effect performance). Since these are a "premium" product, Bob will not sell any that are not "perfect". Additionally because of the nature of the material, there is significant hand finishing that must be done both in trimming the excess mold material and in polishing them to a high gloss finish.

If you ever get to use them, the snap and rebound are fantastic - if you have the leg power to fully utilize their full potential. They are unbelievable in high current situations. There are several U-TUBE videos that demonstrate this.

The only other material that rivals them (and in my mind is better) is the urethane developed for the Original Hockey Fins. I say that because it has a more progressive "load up" and returns more energy than the Tan Delta material at lower power requirements - for divers that no longer have "sprinters legs". But again, this material is expensive and required hand pouring and is no longer available.

I'll take a pair of "imperfect" fins at the right discount.

 

[TN Traveler]

I'll take a pair of "imperfect" fins at the right discount.

Since fins made with Tan Delta have not been produced in several years and the production area in California is no longer in existence - I doubt there are any "2nds" laying around. Plus Bob indicted that he destroyed any fins with visible flaws.

Maybe when he gets around to cleaning out his storage room, he might find a few that have nothing more than a color imperfection that he would sell. He did that with a lot of fins several years ago - nothing more than color problems. I got my Foil Force Fins during that sale - a little strange to look at (sort of a camo blue and grey mix) - but they perform fine.

I won't even be competition for them, since I can no longer kick hard enough to fully utilize the Tan Delta performance (my Yellow Hockey's and Red Tan Delta Flying are more than enough). I have 8 other pairs of Force Fins and the only pair I would add are a set of Launch Pads with OPS Blades.

 

[tridacna]

Since fins made with Tan Delta have not been produced in several years and the production area in California is no longer in existence - I doubt there are any "2nds" laying around. Plus Bob indicted that he destroyed any fins with visible flaws.

Maybe when he gets around to cleaning out his storage room, he might find a few that have nothing more than a color imperfection that he would sell. He did that with a lot of fins several years ago - nothing more than color problems. I got my Foil Force Fins during that sale - a little strange to look at (sort of a camo blue and grey mix) - but they perform fine.

I won't even be competition for them, since I can no longer kick hard enough to fully utilize the Tan Delta performance (my Yellow Hockey's and Red Tan Delta Flying are more than enough). I have 8 other pairs of Force Fins and the only pair I would add are a set of Launch Pads with OPS Blades.

I have four pairs: Pro’s; Excelerating; Regular and New Pros with the wingtips. Just want to feel the Tan Deltas!

 

[coldwaterlloyd]

The Tan Delta material is magic . Plus they look cool .

 

[tridacna]

The Tan Delta material is magic . Plus they look cool .

Stop. Now. (Unless you can get me a pair. XL or 2XL).

 

[JMBL]

Well, a nice bunch of explanations, too sad I came around Force Fin so late...

 

[Bob Evans]

Besides the performance rate, the 16 hour heat treating had to be maintained at 240 degree, plus or minus 1/2 degree. Oven temp can vary from top to bottom, so we had to use special ovens with fans. But they sure were pretty and will never make again due to the high cost.

 

[TN Traveler]

Bob

I was not going to give out all the process details.

 

[NAM001]

Patents expire to drive innovation and protect consumers from price gouging. If you have a huge margin and stop innovating competition can keep you honest. Sounds like you didn't like that. I'm also guessing you are a fan of generic medication and don't buy the name brand...

I'm saying this as an R&D engineer.

the real world dies not work that way. they look for an item with a patent expiration and sell it as their own. there is no threat of competition as claimed. it is nothing more than legal theft of R&D coupled with the exploitation of loose advertizing and availabiility of little funds by buyers. This could have been avoided by by the original maker by updating the patent with small meaningless changes to renew the ownership of the patent and stopping it from going into public domain. There is no competition factor so long as you keep the patent. round up 120 per gallon stopped improving and it became public domain for a cost of less than half. does it matter no other makers use roundup and add their own change to it and call it a new thing. Want proof go to sears and find a mower one has a 25 horse on it the other has a 26. exact same engine except for the carborator. as a package it is a new item and they can make a 25 horse for sears and a 26 for wards and a 27 for dixie chopper and each claim they are all different engines. Diesel trucks one has a blower on it but other than that they are identical but legally different. this will not stop until there is no profit from going to china for cheaper labor. The sad side of this is when a 3rd party does this,,,, although legally different because of the blower, they are identical to the consumer because of appearance and that ignorance results in good original product being considered to be as bad as its 3rd party maker. Much of this you can credit to unions that make the product so costly that it drives people to 3rd parties to buy at a reasonable price. I have to wonder how many people have not bought force fins in the past because of the influence of the fakes and 3rd party items. I cant even fathom the industry that must exist to scout all the new stuff and copy them. You can believe that if china made a ford and put a fraud name tag on in a non ford color of paint it would not pass muster int he US. not because of law but because of the impact of allowing it to exist and the protection groups willing to fight it..

 

[TN Traveler]

The problem with copying Force Fins is that they cannot copy the materials. Bob’s material formulations and processing conditions have been proprietary, so they have never been copied. And they are costly.

The consumer is the problem. He/she sees the same shape and thinks it will perform like the original. When it doesn’t, he/she thinks that the product was just “hype” and never realizes that he/she was duped by the lower price into buying/using an inferior product.

Yes, Real Force Fins are expensive and because they are different, require a “kick learning curve” to maximize their efficiency. Most divers at first feel like they are going nowhere because of how easy they kick. Only after you look at the bottom and realize how much distance you are covering do you appreciate the real performance and how the combination of shape AND material work together.

And just to be honest, they are Scuba Fins, lousy for snorkeling. . Only the Rip Force Fins are good for surface swimming (specifically designed for getting through the waves for boogie boarding - but they do great for snorkeling).