Is there a "hardest cert/most stringent certifier?"
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Answering from a BSAC standpoint. I have to say that I was dissapointed that @Diver0001 would make such disingenuous comments from a position of ignorance.
I am both BSAC trained (Dive Leader which is equal to DM with my Instructor course booked) and PADI RD (considering taking DM then instructor)
Yes BSAC is different. It's methology is based around diving in a club environment. You are not on commercial boats where you are pandered too, where your kit is set up and where you don't need to think (just follow a guide). You are trained to be more self sufficient, and the training is focused on diving in UK waters.
Being the UK the Diving season is quite short, which mean a lot of practice and theroy is done in the pool. By the time divers get in the water the basic skills are at a high level
Where the commercial organisations have 3 qualifications before DM, BSAC only has two (Ocean Diver which is equal to OW) and Sports diver which is RD standard)
Nitrox and Drysuits are embedded in OD courses as is basic rescue. At the end of SD, not only will they have similar rescue skills but they will have been trained in Planned Decompression, More on gas planning, basic dive Leading and assisting a Dive manager. They will be expected to have completed boat dives (large and small) Low Vis diving, using and deploying Shot lines etc etc. They will have been trained in carrying a Pony too. BSAC taught DMSB deployment from depth way before PADI thought about it
Dive Leader Has similaritied to DM where you learn Dive leading and additional rescue skills etc. Where it differs is that DM also learn about the commercial operation and learn how to demonstrate skills as an assistant instructor (Asst Instructor is a different Qual in BSAC
As a DL I am responsible for managing dive trips to locations known by the club (rather than expeditions to unknown areas which is Advanced Diver) Thus I need to be able to plan a days diving, understand and arrange the logistics of getting a boat in the water, gas arranged, charts tide and currents to ensure the dive site is diveable. Make sure we have enough O2 to support and incident and the list goes on. Our bread and butter trips involved arranging a 2 day trip for 20 divers to remote sites 100 miles away from the harbour where coast guard coverage is sparse. Making sure we dive sites which are in the experience range of divers and when at the site making decision regarding the sea state, current etc etc.
Yes BSAC don't teach long hose, primary donate. But neither do the commercials until you get to the Tech level, I've never been in an environment where Long hose is needed.
You be a Zero to Hero under BSAC. There are a minimum number of dives/hrs in the water needed from one course to the next. For OD you complete 20 dives to cover everything (you can't have a dive from a boat and a wall dive signed off in the same dive For SD there are another 20 dives
So BSAC isn't 15-20 years behind the times, it may be a little conservative in someways, however it doesn't produce sausage machine divers
I am both BSAC trained (Dive Leader which is equal to DM with my Instructor course booked) and PADI RD (considering taking DM then instructor)
Yes BSAC is different. It's methology is based around diving in a club environment. You are not on commercial boats where you are pandered too, where your kit is set up and where you don't need to think (just follow a guide). You are trained to be more self sufficient, and the training is focused on diving in UK waters.
Being the UK the Diving season is quite short, which mean a lot of practice and theroy is done in the pool. By the time divers get in the water the basic skills are at a high level
Where the commercial organisations have 3 qualifications before DM, BSAC only has two (Ocean Diver which is equal to OW) and Sports diver which is RD standard)
Nitrox and Drysuits are embedded in OD courses as is basic rescue. At the end of SD, not only will they have similar rescue skills but they will have been trained in Planned Decompression, More on gas planning, basic dive Leading and assisting a Dive manager. They will be expected to have completed boat dives (large and small) Low Vis diving, using and deploying Shot lines etc etc. They will have been trained in carrying a Pony too. BSAC taught DMSB deployment from depth way before PADI thought about it
Dive Leader Has similaritied to DM where you learn Dive leading and additional rescue skills etc. Where it differs is that DM also learn about the commercial operation and learn how to demonstrate skills as an assistant instructor (Asst Instructor is a different Qual in BSAC
As a DL I am responsible for managing dive trips to locations known by the club (rather than expeditions to unknown areas which is Advanced Diver) Thus I need to be able to plan a days diving, understand and arrange the logistics of getting a boat in the water, gas arranged, charts tide and currents to ensure the dive site is diveable. Make sure we have enough O2 to support and incident and the list goes on. Our bread and butter trips involved arranging a 2 day trip for 20 divers to remote sites 100 miles away from the harbour where coast guard coverage is sparse. Making sure we dive sites which are in the experience range of divers and when at the site making decision regarding the sea state, current etc etc.
Yes BSAC don't teach long hose, primary donate. But neither do the commercials until you get to the Tech level, I've never been in an environment where Long hose is needed.
You be a Zero to Hero under BSAC. There are a minimum number of dives/hrs in the water needed from one course to the next. For OD you complete 20 dives to cover everything (you can't have a dive from a boat and a wall dive signed off in the same dive For SD there are another 20 dives
So BSAC isn't 15-20 years behind the times, it may be a little conservative in someways, however it doesn't produce sausage machine divers
CAPTAIN SINBAD
Contributor
Every time someone says "It is the instructor and not the agency" then they should be forced to sit and watch this "agency approved" training video. And Boulder John is not the only instructor I know of who has either withdrawn from a dive shop or kicked from it for not following these "on your knees" agency protocols.
It takes no special instructor skill at all, and it indeed does not take any more time. In fact, many of the skills are easier for the student and go faster.
Is this "agency approved"? It looks to me as if it was made by a local scuba operation.
I mentioned the Roatan instructor training place in my previous email. All their skills done in their approved way are online, and the Director of Instruction I mentioned used them to train the DMs, too.
I sent an email to PADI asking questions about agency approval methodology after he and I had our disagreement, and instead of an email reply I got a very extended phone call from the training department. It confirmed that the agency would prefer that skills be done in horizontal trim and while buoyant, but he also confirmed that they can be done on the knees. He also said the big training organizations all do what you see here, and they have very specific methodologies that they teach and require of their students. He said that when he conducts an IE with such a group, you get the sense that if you put them all in a line and got them to start a skill at the same time, it would look like a synchronized swimming routine.
For those who don't know, I was the coordinator and principle writer for a group of instructors who got an article published by PADI inn its professional journal a number of years ago, an article showing the benefits of horizontal, neutral buoyancy instruction. Getting it published took a long time with extended negotiations and multiple drafts. During those discussions, I pointed out that not a single picture or video in the OW class showed divers in a naturally diving pose; all pictures showed divers on their knees. Their reply was an instant "OMG!" and promise to change that. The OW course now contains no pictures or videos of divers on their knees, and it contains videos showing instructors working with students in horizontal trim and neutrally buoyant.
I am also a BSAC diver (although I also have cards from PADI and TDI; and I'm doing Fundies very soon). I agree with Diving Dubai's post. As with all things, the quality of training will vary from instructor to instructor. But, in general, the system produces thinking divers well suited for drysuit diving in the UK.
I believe that there are historical reasons for the long hose stance. However, times move on, and a long hose Skills Development Course (SDC) is (I think) being developed.
I believe that there are historical reasons for the long hose stance. However, times move on, and a long hose Skills Development Course (SDC) is (I think) being developed.
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Sunn
Contributor
ajduplessis
Contributor
PfcAJ
Contributor
An operator can elect to recognize or not recognize whatever they want.
Which operator is this? Name and city please. Or is this the mysterious unknown merely rumored internet operator?
I have yet to have any operator or instructor refuse to accept a GUE or UTD card as "legitimate". Smart business people ask who I trained with (yes instructor names), where and when and how much diving and at what level I have been doing since that time. They rarely ask to see the actual plastic.
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