is tech worth it? advise needed

[Doppler]

But Matt might hesitate to train him

Nic

Not a post to Nic but to the OP.


One other difference between technical training and the courses that you describe having taken to this point... Most divers are aware these days that they should "interview" the people who are going to be doing the instruction. A lot of new sport divers may not think like this, but I believe the majority of divers who go through continuing ed work out for themselves that there has to be some chemistry between them and the instructor and make the necessary inquiries.

Many sport instructors are based in a retail store.

What comes as a surprise to some of these people when they decide to go tech, is that the process works very strongly in the other direction once one ventures beyond sport diving certs. That's to say, it is not unusual for a tech instructor to refuse to take a student in a class... the refusal is usually subtle but the end result is the same. One reason is that there are some people who just do not seem like good candidates to swim with at 100 metres or a few hundred metres back in a cave...

Many tech instructors are independent business people not associated with a retail store.

Based only on what you have posted here, you may have a challenge convincing some instructors to work with you.

 

[boulderjohn]

I've been debating how to say what some others have been saying. In my first post I took several of your statements as evidence that you are not a good candidate for technical diving training. You don't have the time or the inclination for the type of training that is required.

More importantly, though, your understanding of the nature of the training and why it is necessary is not at a level for you to understand why that is true. You seem to think it is all much easier than it really is, and you don't understand why you can't learn it in the limited amount of time you have for it and why you can't engage in it in your limited amount of annual vacation. As someone suggested above, at this point you do not know enough about the subject to make a good decision about it. Most recreational divers are at that same level of understanding.

I strongly suggest that you put off the technical diving quest for some time later in the future. In the meantime, do as much diving as you can. Read as much as you can about technical diving until the reasoning behind the responses you have received so far become clear to you. At some point you may decide that it is indeed a path you want to explore, and you have the time and resources to explore it. At such a time you will find the people in this forum very supportive and helpful.

 

[mathauck0814]

For instance, say the mean price of a 2 dive boat dive trip is $70 with equipment rental; how much roughly would be the same trip if on trimix.?

You asked a question of cost. I can give you my take (others obviously have their own experiences). For your first "intro to tech" course, you'll rent back mounted doubles, a deco cylinder, three regulators, a bp/w setup, assorted accessories specific to the dives you'll be doing and depending on where you're diving likely a drysuit (assuming, of course you have drysuit experience to begin with - otherwise, you may need to start there). Rental of this type of equipment can easily be hundreds of dollars over the course of a 2-3 day class.

But wait - you still have to buy gas.

Assuming you likely won't be diving with trimix in an intro course, we're just looking at EANx and air as options. Air is cheap, rich blends of EANx are usually charged at a rate per cuft (or litre, depending where you are). A typical fill of 50% in a 40cf tank here is about $20.

So you've rented gear, you've bought your gas, but you still need to pay the boat - which is likely to be at least as much as the $70 you cited previously, but in most cases more because there will be fewer guests aboard to spread the cost. And then you add in a tech instructor. Instructor costs range wildly, but figure at about $200/day for his time. That's what you've got in store for your first "intro to tech" experience, which - by the way - will likely be to recreational depths (+/-40m) for a slightly longer period of time than you're accustomed to.

For any level beyond the intro to tech, I'd be surprised if the instructor wouldn't want you to own more of your own equipment (at which point you can spend thousands upon thousands acquiring your own set of the gear I listed above).

It's not uncommon for folks who are already trained and own all of their own kit to spend hundreds (possibly even more) for a tech trip by the time you're done chartering the boat, filling the tanks etc. etc. etc. And even then weather and conditions (or navy bombing on San Clemente) can blow you out and you end up diving your expensive gas on shallow wrecks and reefs nearer to shore than you had planned for. You have to be prepared to write off the entire thing and eat the cost in the process.

This ain't something you do for fun once in a while. It's a lifestyle choice that's worth it to the people who do it. It takes time and dedication. I'd encourage you to wait until you have all of the necessary drive and resources before you undertake this type of diving.

 

[ajduplessis]

Tech is a lot of fun and you have the opportunity to develop both personally (you really start to understand what you are made of) and on a skills/knowledge level.

The most important thing to know about tech is that when things go wrong, it hurts!!!! Either physically or for your family.

 

[elvisisalive]

I know too many people who have responed here, mostly by reputation, to not offer up my .02c. As a very new technical diver I have learned one thing that I have not seen written in any course description anywhere. I have not read anywhere, at any time, that this one thing should be a prerequisite to technical dive training. This one thing is COMMITEMENT.

How commited are you to: yourself, your team, the boat you hired, and all the people on that boat? Diving here, east coast U.S. primarily in Boston/Salem, everyone is a team. We all help each other gear up. We help each other out of their gear. We help each other under water. No questions, no worries. At the depths you are talking about, 80+ meters, there simply isn't enough time to effectively handle problems without teamwork. So, how commited are you? Are you commited enough to own all your gear so that you KNOW it works? Are you commited enough to dive often and use the skills to stay sharp? Are you commited enough, as has been mentioned, to blow off some really expensive gas and not dwell on it if the site changes? Are you commited enough to get help, no matter what happened and at what risk, and go back and deal with it? Are you commited enough to sit down with the people you love, and who love you, and have an honest conversation with them about the risks you are about to undertake? With the people I dive with, and yes we have discussed it, these are the questions that need to be answered.

I like looking at the fish. I like looking at coral. I like wrecks too. I really like the people I dive with. Except for the time underwater I mostly like the time I spend with these people after the dive on the trip back in. Where is your commitment level? I think that is the question that will answer your question.

 

[burak]

if you had your DM with around 60 dives under your belt and it seems to you still normal after all the things you wrote in your first post I can say you don't respect the water the way we do.

Other than that tec diving isn't something you can do on your yearly diving trips without diving in the rest of the time for just exercising. If you just don't have the time than just don't do it.

Summing up the tec diving to just changing gas is like summing up the driving just indicating when you're turning at a set of light.

 

[rlynch]

chiming in here... As someone whom is going the GUE route.

1st thing is - Why do you need to go technical? Its just a question...you need to ask yourself. My personal reason is that i want to head to the Bikini Atoll in a few years and do those dives on the Atomic fleet. All are at ~150-175 Fsw, very remote so in order do it safely i need to have solid Tech diving skills - and so does my team that i go with. This is not a trip you head out to alone, IMHO. Start looking under the hood of tech diving and you are quick to find that you need solid people to go with, whom are going to be on the same page as you, not to mention the same Deco schedule for the entire 10+ day trip.

2nd thing - Cost... plan in excess of $8K at least for training, Gas, gear, drysuit, lights, etc. I think that is a very optimistic #. my true cost will probably be double that.


3rd thing is training. I am only going to speak GUE here... You need to pass Fundimentals at the technical level - Look up the requirements on thier site. but the net net is your propulsion methods need to be perfect, your boyancy at a 1.5 foot swing max, and you need to completly nail all the drills to Demo quality, your trim in the water has to be less than 20 degrees. In doubles. To do this you - if coming from PADI training this is going to be a drastic change in the way you dive. I would suggest taking a Primer course, then after talking to your instructor taking the Fundimentals from the same instructor. and if nessecary retaking it from the same instructor. Its a great class but you need to commit to it. I loved it both times i took it. Once you pass GUE-F at a tech level then you can take Tech 1 which typically runs about $2k + travel + Boat + Gas + whatever else your course requires.

To sum up: Is it worth it? That answer totally depends on what your goals are, and why you need it i.e. what is the end goal. Deeper wrecks, a special trip, Caves, etc.

id just be realistic with my goals and motivations before jumpin in with both feet.
I do not want to discourge you but getting there is not a light endeavor with GUE. There are other agiencys that may or are cheaper, depends on what you want to do.

 

[Kern]

Tech is a lot of fun and you have the opportunity to develop both personally (you really start to understand what you are made of) and on a skills/knowledge level.

Snips & snails & puppy dogs tails?

 

[waterpirate]

There are generally 3 things that bring someone to tech.

1. mission driven
2. discipline driven
3. natural progression

Any of these is acceptable as long as training is sought out and completed as you go. The 3 things that I have seen that bring people to tech, that allways ends badly.

1. ego
2. all the cool kids are doing it
3. short circuiting training, and or logged dives befor moving on to the next level.

Everything costs money. But with patience and the right mentoring you can make wise purchases over time and still get great results. Omitting patience like a lot of other things drives the cost up quickly.
Eric