Is Side Mount the new DIR??? Building resentment towards us as a group...

[8buck]

A typical dive shop is not going to teach open water scuba in 6

Not to be rude but first you say who cares what someone has on and then say well OW students should stay with the basics until they know what they are doing? Are you talking about the same people or different? As @Patoux01 says above, what is not basic with a BP/W? IMOH, a BP/W would actually be easier for a number of reasons. If you teach students in SM from the get go then they dont know any different, not meant like it sounds, but they should be introduced to "traditional" scuba as well. SM is not really that complicated as long as it is taught thoroughly.

90% of my students here in Florida are not taking the class to be divers. They are going on a cruise and want to dive. 90% of my students will rent gear/equipment. So the class as a whole is wearing the same equipment. They are shown different configurations and what everything does and what all the buttons do. But until there focus is 100% on safety (learning how to dive) and they can master certain skills why introduce a mixed equipment class. In other shops they may outfit EVERYONE in bp/w long hose or SM. Good for them... In the end all that matters is they get trained and are happy and excited to further training....

 

[Wookie]

Actually I was able to get sidemount tanks on the Tala, in the Red Sea. In fact, there were four of us in sidemount on that trip and they supplied us all with sidemount tanks. We requested them in advance, and they even had the proper left/right valves on our tank sets. They also offered backmount doubles to those who wanted to use them. And scooters ... and helium. Wasn't cheap ... but it was worth it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

And if you chartered the whole boat on the Spree, you would get the same service, except I only have 3 rental scooters. I would, however, have them shipped in from Seattle (imagine that) for you. But that wouldn't be an open boat....

 

[OrangeCountyScuba]

A typical dive shop is not going to teach open water scuba in 6

What do you mean by this?

90% of my students here in Florida are not taking the class to be divers. They are going on a cruise and want to dive. 90% of my students will rent gear/equipment. So the class as a whole is wearing the same equipment. They are shown different configurations and what everything does and what all the buttons do. But until there focus is 100% on safety (learning how to dive) and they can master certain skills why introduce a mixed equipment class. In other shops they may outfit EVERYONE in bp/w long hose or SM. Good for them... In the end all that matters is they get trained and are happy and excited to further training....

I agree mostly on what you wrote, we are on the same page that they are trained well and happy.
Maybe I was a bit to vague, I do not allow mix gear classes when I am teaching OW, they are all in the exact same SM gear and the same gear that I wear as well. So it seems we are not at odds almost at all.

 

[TONY CHANEY]

I must first admit that I have not and will not read past the first page because I feel that the entire thread is pure BS! My instructor, friends, trip divers, etc. all dive in several mixed teams. On the last dive to the Lodge at Lake Jocassee we had 1 on RB, 3-4 in back mount and 2-3 in side mount and not one word or bashing was said. It is the same in cave country and at the local quarry and never once have I seen any bashing! I do believe that if someone enters a "gas station" and starts a teasing or bashing conversation then others will be rather willing and to jump in. I tend to look at it like being members of different US military services. I have and will spend time with my military counterparts but, if someone comes in and starts a teasing or bashing conversation about the Marine Corps then, and only then, do I engage in the conversation and I do take great offense in any badmouthing the Marine Corps! Get it? Another example...we were in the water at the steps at Ginnie and just starting our dive prep when I noticed the couple next to us had Finland, DIR, and GUE patches on their dry suits. I just said, "sorry for your lost pertaining to the cavers that die in the caves." They just said, "thanks and we miss them also but it was a stupid dive." They never once said a damn word about my BWBD, computers, Poseidon regs, etc. I sounds to me that you, NetDoc started it. I have nothing against you but, damn man, why does this stuff always seem to happen to you?

 

[Coztick]

I was just reading in new posts how a guy had come back to SB after a two hiatus. Couldn't wait to get back diving and buying gear. First comment? "Have you tried our Lord and Savior, Side Mount, yet?" OK, he didn't say Lord and Savior, but it kind of fits.

Yea, that was me... He mentioned wanting to take a refresher so I suggested sm as a way of learning something new at the same time...I also checked his profile and saw he is a 52 yr old trucker with some experience.(good candidate for sm). Didn't tout it as the only way, didn't say anything more apart from a friendly greeting...anyway the offending post is removed and I will leave you to your politics and religion. I'm sure he will find his way, I know I have.
Cheers, Kevin

 

[The Chairman]

why does this stuff always seem to happen to you?

Situational awareness is the ability to observe what others miss. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it's not happening around you. It's like watching any number of OW classes. I see silt outs all over the place, but instructors often insist this just doesn't happen and especially not in their classes. They just can't or won't see the problem that's obvious to many. I keep my eyes and ears open all the time. I want to know the pulse of the sport and of the industry. I think that this is a worthy discussion and obviously, I have injected a bit of humor into it (sorry @wetwelder) The first step in solving any problem is to actually see that it exists.

 

[OrangeCountyScuba]

Hey, I think it is great that @NetDoc is posing the questions that illicit a discussion. Whether or not there is any type of agreement or people just end up hating each other. I still feel like that is better than just blindly following the advice of an individual. Social consciousness does not develop from one person dictating it to the masses, it requires the inquiry, discussion, and wisdom of all to make a beneficial difference.
@NetDoc I am going to regret bringing this up and using you as bait so I apologize in advanced for setting you up. You pose the question is SM the new DIR? Which is a fair question, however who is determining what is DIR at this point in time? Do we have a panel of judges, like the supreme court or is it just up to whomever argues the point the best. Where are the lines drawn for what is or isn't DIR? Now I understand that there are some long standing standards that make "DIR" what it is, however it probably took a lot of discussion and messing around to get it right. Now we have a new system that is being utilized, isn't it fair to now have a honest discussion about SM to see if it does fit the mold.

 

[kelemvor]

Sorta stupid n00b question here, since I don't believe I've ever seen or heard about sidemount rigs in my neck of the woods:

Unless you're doing penetration dives with tight restrictions, what are the rational reasons for choosing sidemount over backmount? I can really understand the "Because I think it's cool and want to do it this way" reason, but it'd be interesting to hear some more rational arguments.

I did it for one reason. Cost.

I was taking cave classes, and needed doubles. I already owned two tanks. Backmount doubles are supposedly enough of a pita to connect/disconnect that you must dedicate tanks to doubles if you're going to use this configuration. Sidemount tanks can be used either way with no trouble at all.

All the other stuff is mostly equivalent.. I needed either a doubles wing or a sidemount bcd, two firsts, two seconds etc..

It was an opportunity to save money in an area where there are limited opportunities to save money without compromising safety.

Stuff like passing no-mount restrictions that some sidemounters talk about were not a factor for me. It's all well and good, but I'm several years at least from doing that kind of diving.



As for sidemount being the new DIR? I don't think so. In my opinion they're closer to an opposite. DIR is exclusive, sidemount is inclusive. Everyone can dive sidemount, but only the cool kids sit at the DIR table. I don't think I've ever heard of sidemount instructors calling non sidemounters names like "stroke" etc...

 

[shoredivr]

i bought a sm system, its in my garage, waiting for me to vis my tanks, reassemble some regs. My number 1 bm double buddy doesnt know and he's going to implode when pics pop up on facebook. I have 2 awesome sm buddies who are going to mentor me. I have grown to appreciate the advantages watching and diving with these 2 effecient, minimalist, clean, fast sm divers.

Maybe i need a new toy, maybe i get tired of dealing with hp 100's. One of them lent me a full system, i took it for a long ocean dive, the surface swim was ridiculous, and my trim and propulsion was dumb easy. Sold.

Do you dive a drysuit up here in the Great Lakes? You could split up the HP 100s if they are doubles and dive them sidemount. I did that and am pretty happy with them as SM tanks for cold water diving.

 

[tkdgodess]

Drysuit in the pacific ocean. Im going to keep the 100's configured as they are. for now. I have enough gear to have both ready to dive.