Is Side Mount the new DIR??? Building resentment towards us as a group...

[decompression]

If you are asking about somebody taking OW in side mount I have no problem with it.

If you area talking about teaching a typical OW class with all the students in side mount, then I have some questions. The point is to prepare the students in the brief time they are in class. They should be prepared for what they will face. The majority of student will go off to a resort and rent gear that is back mount in a jacket. Since that is what they will mostly see that is the first thing they should learn.

A large majority of my ow SM students either have their own rig or get one very soon. They do travel but bring their own gear, no SM rental gear isn't an issue. As well a lot of my agency affiliated shops rent SM gear.

Further, towards the end of class, I offer a "traditional BM" workshop. After a couple of hours in the pool/OW they are diving BM with excellent trim and bouyancy.


As mentioned by AJ, wrt mixed team diving, one of my agencies really stresses the "team" element (guess which one?). So, SM, BM, singles, doubles or RB, everyone is compatible.

 

[OrangeCountyScuba]

Someone posted in the instructor forum a question about teaching OW students in BP/W...people need to stay with the basics until they know what they are doing.

Not to be rude but first you say who cares what someone has on and then say well OW students should stay with the basics until they know what they are doing? Are you talking about the same people or different? As @Patoux01 says above, what is not basic with a BP/W? IMOH, a BP/W would actually be easier for a number of reasons. If you teach students in SM from the get go then they dont know any different, not meant like it sounds, but they should be introduced to "traditional" scuba as well. SM is not really that complicated as long as it is taught thoroughly.

 

[boulderjohn]

Already said my reason ... my joints restrict my range of motion, making valve manipulation behind my back difficult if not impossible. If you can't manage valves, you shouldn't be using back-mount doubles. So on dives that require doubles, sidemount is a feasible option.

I have taught two tech students who took the class in sidemount, and I have to admit I have some qualms about this part of it. When I teach a tech class in backmount, the hardest part for students--by very, very very far--is doing the valve shutdown drill. If you have never done it before, you will not believe how much work it takes most people to master it. In contrast, with sidemount it is a piece of cake, easily mastered.

Both students get the same certification.

My uneasiness lies in wondering what happens in the future if the students are in a position to change from one to the other. I wonder if the sidemount student who decides to start diving backmount will put in the time and effort it takes to be able to shut down those valves effectively in an emergency.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Oh, I could do valve drills just fine back when I first started tech diving. Over time, wear and tear took its toll. I had a most embarrassing week-end in Victoria a few years back and decided that if I wanted to keep doing deeper dives or cave dives I needed a different strategy ... after a time the flexibility in the joints just goes, and no matter how much you practice you ain't getting it back ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boulderjohn]

Oh, I could do valve drills just fine back when I first started tech diving. Over time, wear and tear took its toll. I had a most embarrassing week-end in Victoria a few years back and decided that if I wanted to keep doing deeper dives or cave dives I needed a different strategy ... after a time the flexibility in the joints just goes, and no matter how much you practice you ain't getting it back ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I'm worried about the ones who never had it in the first place and don't really realize its importance. It is something like learning to drive an automatic car and not knowing how to use a manual transmission, except that if you don't know how to use a manual transmission, you won't get out of the driveway with the car. If you don't know the valve drill is important for backmounted doubles and don't know you can't do it until your left post goes bad....

 

[Steve_C]

Question. I am trying to reboard a 38 ft boat at the stern in seas that have built up to 5-7 ft. With BM "all" i have to do is grab the ladder at the right time and swing onto it. Hold on and then slowly climb up. This take all my effort sometimes. It would seem to me that life would be a lot harder with two tanks dangling off me or hanging around the stern trying to pass one up. Would appreciate some info on how SM works in that situation.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'm worried about the ones who never had it in the first place and don't really realize its importance. It is something like learning to drive an automatic car and not knowing how to use a manual transmission, except that if you don't know how to use a manual transmission, you won't get out of the driveway with the car. If you don't know the valve drill is important for backmounted doubles and don't know you can't do it until your left post goes bad....

... then you shouldn't be diving BM doubles. This should be articulated in training, as well as the reasons why. After that ... well ... you're not a nanny. Another essential skill for the tech diver is the ability to make responsible decisions ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[decompression]

Question. I am trying to reboard a 38 ft boat at the stern in seas that have built up to 5-7 ft. With BM "all" i have to do is grab the ladder at the right time and swing onto it. Hold on and then slowly climb up. This take all my effort sometimes. It would seem to me that life would be a lot harder with two tanks dangling off me or hanging around the stern trying to pass one up. Would appreciate some info on how SM works in that situation.

Use one tank or go BM, SM isn't the be all end all.

Question;
I'm exploring a cenote that has a 40' drop to the entrance and a high quality Mexican rope. Which set of BM doubles do I use? Hypothetical.......
But again, tools in a tool box.

 

[Razorista]

Question. ...With BM "all" i have to do is grab the ladder at the right time and swing onto it. Hold on and then slowly climb up...

You just grab the ladder and climb up.
I remove my fins when grabbing the bottom rung, so I am faster on the ladder than any backmounter most of the time.

If that is impossible because the waves lift the ladder out of the water I would prefer going in prepared and have the crew drop a line at the right moment to clip-off one of the tanks to it.
I see no real problem however to just grab the ladder and let yourself be pulled up, fins and all.
Needed to do that only ones (always could jump up the ladder between big waves the other times), but removed my fins and clipped them to a shoulder D-ring that time as well, as the current was taking me towards the ladder faster than I could swim anyway.
Walking up the ladder is easy with one tank, with both the combined weight can be a problem, but actually the tanks pull you toward the ladder rather than away from it, so in my opinion it is less hard to climb stairs and ladders with two sidemounted tanks than with a single backmounted one.

 

[The Chairman]

If you do a touristy-type dive at Ginnie (like I would do) I don't really see a big upside in diving sidemount or a twinset... what difference does it make? Do you think it's less safe to do a dive like this in SM?

I dive side mount in caves more out of necessity. I've had seven operations on my right hand (I accidentally told someone today it was 13, but that was wrong), two on the left and Achilles Tendon surgeries on both ankles. Toting both LP120s on my back from my van down the stairs and into the water just won't cut it for me anymore. Even one at a time, I would like to dial that back a bit in weight, so today I picked up my new SF2 rebreather. Yay me.

What I've noticed is that this phenomenon doesn't happen in real life

Yet, that's exactly where the scenario I posted happened: IRL. Denigrating the internet or people on the internet is just as bad as denigrating your fellow diver. I've seen you FIGJAM people here, so it's not just the newbies that have this problem.

Huh? Isn't Frank one of the more vocal opponents of sidemount?

You know, I don't think Frank likes SM, but he was pretty clear it was my choice: not his. He gave me a set of requirements, like being able to negotiate his ladder and left it to my discretion. He mentioned earlier how I loved diving off of boats in the Sea of Cortez and he failed to mention that those were all RIB dives. You had to hand up your BC or your tanks, and I was amazed at how much easier it was for me to dive SM on a RIB than it would have been for BM. Why? Because it was. However, I've only attempted side mount on Keys style dive boat a few times. Two with HP80s, four with AL80s and a few sidemounting a GEM. I don't like it and I see no need to continue to try to dive that kind of set up off of Burpees and Newtons. I might have been excited about how nice diving SM on a RIB is, but I didn't make the Back Mounters feel they had to justify their decisions either. I see it as an easy way to double my gas supply when I'm diving abroad and can't bring my steels. Dive and let dive.

Sure, Frank was the first person I heard "Where's your sidemount?" from on that trip, but he wasn't the only one. Frank's best attribute is that he's brutally frank. That might be his worst attribute too. All I know is that I feel he runs the safest liveaboard in the world. All of the liveaboards I have been on have been quite safe, so don't read anything negative in that about them. But no other boat captains sweat the details like Frank and Melanie do to keep us safe. Safe is fun. I like Frank's boat because I like how Frank and Melanie run it.