Is Side Mount the new DIR??? Building resentment towards us as a group...

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The problem seems to be worst when people bring a competitive sport mindset into a non-competitive hobby. In sports, the right ways tend to win out over wrong because the right ways produce more wins.

In diving?

The only wrong way to dive - the only time you actually "lose" at the "sport" of diving - is when somebody winds up in the hospital or morgue. That's the only score. Every other dive is, based on the only reasonable way to keep score, a win.

No rec diver has ever "lost" at the "sport" of diving because of split fins, and yet for years they were considered to be "wrong".

When one group loudly proclaims a right way, but following the wrong way constantly wins, it just sounds pedantic.
 
I think what the backmounters are feeling now is just the backlash to their own behavior.
Every sidemounter constantly has to explain himself, will get criticized on entries holding up the group.
They do not stop explaining when criticism stops, however, have gotten used to have to.

Hereabouts most divers follow DIR-principles to some degree but distance themselves from the behavior people associate with DIR-divers and show their 'open mindedness' aggressively, but are not open to real differences and can look very fanatical then.
Having spend a lot of money in the believe of 'doing it right' and than being shown a different way that looks a lot easier (and less expensive in it's minimalism) hurts.

Personally I get a different impression most times, since I am 'special' at the dive place: I have not lost my interest and fascination with conventional dive equipment.
And especially modifications the users are used to being criticized for get my applause.

Fastex-buckles on the shoulder strap?
I am interested why the divers is using them, would never think to actively criticize them for it.
Most people react very positively if you start by talking happily and openly with them about a topic they have gotten defensive about from experience.

From my experience those most likely to switch to sidemount are those most dedicated to diving, but with a current personal problem with progressing.
Many have already chosen a definite path for their diving future, so it is hard for many with that attitude to switch tracks suddenly.
A lot react 'violently' towards sidemounters then, calling what they are doing a fad, greeting with 'Ah...you sidemount' instead of 'Hello'...
Seeing the sidemounter in the water afterwards mostly provokes one similar initial reaction in those: 'What a showoff... '.
Those with skill look to them like a Zoolander character, beginners are often just dorks to them.
Some take a long time getting over this initial reaction and until they do, all the sidemount divers they meet have to first convince them they are not 'the new DIR' before communication becomes possible again.

From my experience most of the people talking to a sidemount diver at a divesite without the sidemount diver initiating communication are likely to be sidemount diving exclusively within a year.
That is why many 'leaders' of groups tend to get involved if one of their group even looks at the sidemount equipment, with strong and loudly voiced criticism and 'it's just a fad' mumblings just loud enough for everyone to hear. :wink:

All the while the sidemount divers fail to meet expectations most of the time.
Most just do not talk to you anymore if you initiate this game once again.
Those that talk always can explain what they are doing and when making mistakes often fix them before the next dive.
Most are impossible to criticize for long without seeming vicious or like holding an irrational personal grudge.

In my opinion this will go in circles everywhere and only stop when sidemount has become a true alternative in diving.
Already every diver with a problem is recommended to try sidemount, but it will take a long time before 50% of beginning divers are even told of it's existence, most still have to find out about it themselves later.
 
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Sweet mercy. There was a bigger picture theme to that conversation :)
See what you two started? Again? :D But then, you really didn't start this: you simply voiced the growing frustration I've been seeing grow. In any event, I'm glad you found the thread, because I was going to send you an invite to it sooner or later. Even if I don't mention a person's name (which I didn't), I still feel it's only fair to include them if they inadvertently started a conversation. I'll rely on you to tell youknowho. :D :D :D
and show their 'open mindedness' aggressively,
Is that what you call that? You've been involved in some discussions here that seem to typify what I've been posting about. Sometimes you're doing the dumping but quite often you're being dumped on. In many cases you seem to be your own worst enemy in that regard and people are only responding in kind to your statements.

I certainly don't think every Side Mount diver displays this kind of mindset. Not even most. For most of us, side mounting is just another tool or skill set. When I'm at a dive site, I love the give and take amongst most Side Mounters. I would just as soon steal an idea or solution from a diver as provide one. But a few Side Mounters take things to a far more intense level that I don't like. Many people who have seen me dive back mount have mistaken me for a DIR diver. I'm even in one of GUE's early videos which gives a few that impression. In reality, I bristle at being included with them because of the intolerance displayed by probably only a few. As long as you're safe and not silting out the place, my only hope for you as a diver is that you're having fun and will be sharing your experiences with us (like Bob's awesome pics). Dive and let dive is my philosophy.
 
Dive and let dive is my philosophy.
I share that sentiment. Does not work well on the internet though.

'Let dive' is something you can rarely prove to the satisfaction of people in a discussion.

Many sidemount divers today have never had the chance to perfect their backmount training before they realized they could progress much faster concentrating on sidemount only.

There is only a minority of an older generation that got that chance, but most are respected and a lot more experienced than the 'newer generation' (that is not age related, just influenced by the time they first heard about sidemount diving).
Those mostly dislike the 'sidemount zealots' and have started to perceive them everywhere.
In my perception, however, those do not exist at all outside the internet.

On the internet you just can present arguments supporting your opinion.
Presenting or too lightly accepting any to weaken your position is exploited mercilessly.
The usefulness of sidemount is easy to prove in theory, it's effectiveness shown in pictures and video.
Sidemount divers 'win' almost every discussion before it even starts, emotions start to run high and people make fools of themselves most of the time in the long run or give up frustrated and with emotions to suppress the next time.

Sidemount is a very good topic nowadays to start a thread with active participation to get out of control quickly.
Sidemounters themselves often seem even worse than backmounters, troll-baiting and always trying to outdo each other in generous acceptance of other diving styles even when it is often just done out of context to distract and ridicule, by people all exclusively diving sidemount themselves or preferring it at least.
 
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I think there must be regional differences in diving culture, because I see none of the negative behavior described so far around SE Asia. Sidemount has proven quite popular here, both for rec and tech, but there is little/no bickering about kit and configuration.

Come dive in Subic Bay and you'll see boats containing GUE divers, olde-school European tech types and sidemount divers all getting along in a happy, rust-covered, bliss. :)

I think in diving there are new approaches that come along and initially create an element of division in the community. This is all personality and ego based, on both sides.... and, I believe, it is more prevalent online than it ever is in real life. When the initial fuss dies down, the community moves forwards in status-quo until the 'next big thing' comes along.

If a diver has enough experience to have been through these divisions, once or more, they understand that process and tend not to involve themselves in it. The characters most heavily involved in 'fundamentalist' opinions, in either camp, are typically those for whom the new approach is the first shift in status-quo they've experienced.

The new approach generates 'neophytes' and 'zealots' who feel compelled to publicly champion the approach, its founders and/or see it as an evolution that consigns former approaches to the past. By merit of their involvement with the approach, there is an element of 'stolen glory' in some mindsets; where they view the approach as superior, thereby making them superior. Superiority by association. Some people do need to feel superior. What they are celebrating is actually themselves, not the actual approach they've associated with.

In contrast, the new approach also generates entrenched opposition. This is typical 'change management' stuff. There will be those who view the new approach as a threat and become entrenched philosophically in defense of the old status quo; that they know and understand. This can lead to public dismissal, fault-finding and, even, hostility to the new approach. Again, for some, there is an element of ego involved, where they previously associated superiority to the old approach and by, transference, superiority in themselves. The new approach threatens that situation and their position, as they see it, at the cutting-edge of diving.

Very typical threat versus opportunity from an ego perspective.

Those who don't care about 'superiority' merely engage in assessment of pros and cons, costs and benefits, risks versus rewards; or the practical issues for implementation. They are often a moderating influence between the two polarities described above. The peacemakers, the observers and fact-finders.

The polarized factions do the arguing, but the observers tend to be the ones who establish the eventual community consensus. Both have their roles in the evolution.

New approaches also go through internal schisms en-route to a stable status-quo. Even within one faction, there will be dissent and disagreement on sub-factors and minor issues.

These 'internal' schisms tend to be about forming a general consensus,as part of establishing status quo. They start only once the new approach has begun to justify itself externally.

The 'internal' schisms tend to start deep, but get shallower; as consensus is gradually formed. The issues contested get smaller and smaller, as broad-brush factors become agreed. However, these 'internal' schisms still attract zealots and neophytes, which slows the process of debate and agreement. However, the inertia of consensus that these more entrenched objectionists cause also has the positive effect of ensuring that every last, small aspect of an issue is scrutinized under a microscope.

Personally, I see this all as a normal process of evolution. The same happens outside of diving, in many facets of life. Change brings upheaval and polarizes people to vary degrees. Some people will always be more polarized than others.

However, the process of philosophical and/or practical evolution depends on these polarizing factors as a means to determine the relative merits of things old and new. Very few of us are truly unbiased. Polarization of opinion, both ways, runs along a scale from minor to extreme; and the consequent emotional investment and sense of identification that people demonstrate on a given issue are reflected in that scale of polarization and the level to which concepts are scrutinized.

Pick any facet of human life and we see the same patterns and behaviors. Religion, politics, science, nationalism, race, science fiction genres etc etc etc The same pattern of varied extremity of polarization occurs, the same nature of arguments, the same spectrum of emotions and objectives.

I think it's just part of being human. It's how we, as a species, attempt to reach a status quo and why we very rarely do. It's also why we don't still live in caves. If the process didn't occur then we'd undoubtedly all be a little happier; let's all "agree to disagree" and "each to their own", but the end result would be stagnation,not evolution.

To be honest, those who campaign for an "each to their own" approach can be equally as polarized as the zealots and entrenched. They are, after all, merely presenting their own agenda and perspective somewhere along that scale of polarization. However, unlike the zealots or entrenched, they are often less self-aware that they are presenting a specific agenda and notion to the community. They can be as self-righteous and vociferous as anyone else.

Process by squabbling... oh, what alien observers must think of our species :wink:

Decide where on the scale you stand. Try to understand your motivations and reasons for that position. Understand that others sit differently on the scale. Try to understand their position also; and how it shapes their perspectives, motivations and behavior. Engage in the process as much, or as little, as you are motivated to do so. Observe or ignore instead, if that make you more comfortable.

It is what it is. Everyone has role to play and each role is important. The one constant is that nothing is going to change our human behaviors except a very long process of evolution: :D
 
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Now my irony meter just imploded...

I have been asked about it when I dive sidemount but I have never gotten any flag for it, even though I live in the same country as a poster that seem to be getting flag from people a lot... I wonder why that is.
 
I think there must be regional differences in diving culture, because I see none of the negative behavior described so far around SE Asia. Sidemount has proven quite popular here, both for rec and tech, but there is little/no bickering about kit and configuration.
I have never experienced it myself, but I am often told sidemount acceptance is better in many Asian countries.

Even when the base gives the impression of never having seen a sidemounter before people rarely remember any problems by the time they get home to tell.
 
Now my irony meter just imploded....
I like this special irony. :wink:

I got to know a special German flavor of this discussion and by now know very well why German divers are often ridiculed.
Most divers here are very proud of the local quality of diving education and the complexity of local conditions.
Learning flexibility is not part of that however. Changes are often only thought about if a problem is accepted first and most do not admit problems at all, they rather stop coming to the dive sites.
Very bad conditions for sidemount diving. :wink:

All the while there are lots of German speaking cave divers worldwide, some of whom have been using sidemount for decades for the special purpose of passing restrictions in caves and sometimes on challenging wrecks at mostly shallow depths.
They never needed the extremely perfect tank positioning advocated today, often honestly do not have any advantage using their SM-config open water when compared to their own backmount config.

Some look as perfect today, mind you, but many also ignore perfection since they do not need it anymore with superior skill.

The new breed of sidemounters often are less well trained and experienced, but come much closer to an optical illusion of perfection then the 'old breed'.
When beginners start to follow advice preferably from those that give the best impression on shared OW dives (without any regard for 'real' experience) there naturally have to be conflicts of interest and emotion.
 
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I got to know a special German flavor of this discussion and by now know very well why German divers are often ridiculed.
Most divers here are very proud of the local quality of diving education and the complexity of local conditions.
I'm a German diver and I have not been ridiculed. The 'local conditions' are not complex by any means, we have very few deeper lakes and quarrys; the German part of the baltic is pretty shallow and not 'complex' either. That's it.

The reason you are being ridiculed is that you constantly making false claims and talk about stuff you don't know anything about. You just did it in the last post, you don't know anything about 'complex' diving, you have no experience to speak of beyond duck ponds and pools and please stop telling people about 'what Germans do or think'.
 
@Bennno
In diving more than in most things Germans are known to be pedantic, often much to proud of their own training and inflexible in accepting new ideas.

You demonstrate one of the common 'tactics' in discussions: judging others experience without knowing anything about it and relating that to what they are 'allowed' to say or think.
 
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