Is selling Life Support Equipment on the Net Ethical ?

[Nomaster]

"... People who buy from the internet do so to save $$$, which is totally fine, in fact even logical. However, what you are going to find, and this is starting to happen all over the place in Florida, is dive shops being able to tell if you are in just looking and then going to buy off the internet. THOSE PEOPLE GET ZERO TIME, ZERO ANSWERS, AND ZERO CUSTOMER SERVICE."

Good salesmanship, whatta dude! er RUBE.

"Also, bring in a reg bought off the internet for us to put together, $150 bucks, buy a reg from us, FREE CHECKUPS B/C SERVICE. Bring in a reg with a problem and we will ask you why you didn't take to the place where you bought it, most people will say they bought it from a dive shop where they used to live, so we ask the name of the shop and check the website of the manufacturer to see if they are a dealer,

WE ARE NOT STUPID."

See first response.

If the warranty's good, honor it, money in the bank.
If it's not good, fix it full cost, money in the bank.
If the warranty's not good and you can leverage a sale, a new customer, more money in the bank.

Enough already, I can't handle this, somebody send the guy a clue pill, education won't help at this point.

Tom

 

[Knavey]

tpabchbum...

What's the name of the shop you work at? Someplace in Tampa?

 

[pharmguy]

We are not in the business of selling you the "best" equipment out there. We are in the business of selling you the "best equipment out there for you".

THOSE PEOPLE GET ZERO TIME, ZERO ANSWERS, AND ZERO CUSTOMER SERVICE. Also, bring in a reg bought off the internet for us to put together, $150 bucks, buy a reg from us, FREE CHECKUPS B/C SERVICE. Bring in a reg with a problem and we will ask you why you didn't take to the place where you bought it, most people will say they bought it from a dive shop where they used to live, so we ask the name of the shop and check the website of the manufacturer to see if they are a dealer, WE ARE NOT STUPID. If there is not dealer by that name in that town, we hand it back to them and ask them how they like the internet now and maybe they should send it back to have the problem fixed. This only works b/c most of the shops in our area do the same, the ones that don't bring us the regs when they screw them up.

Issue #1 - Who are you? - getting some info would add to your credibility. Perhaps you are Firewalker re-incarnated. He obviously refuses to listen to the positions presented and backs his claims with a repetitive question but no solid rebuttal.

Issue #2 - You are interested in selling me the best equipment that you "stock". If I don't like your equipment am I avoiding the "best"? On the internet I get choice over brands, models, etc. not to mention the ability to shop when my LDS isn't open. The two responses I have got from internet stores were well informed and non-biased unlike the 90% of responses from LDS's that bash Brand X.

Issue #3 - So you won't service equipment bought elsewhere. Nice. What shop do you work for? - I'll make sure I never visit or get air from there. That's some crappy customer service/public relations. I'd expect as a consumer to have to pay a bit more for servicing at a shop but flat refusal.

Jason - not scared to put my name.

 

[DPJ]

Bring in a reg with a problem and we will ask you why you didn't take to the place where you bought it, most people will say they bought it from a dive shop where they used to live, so we ask the name of the shop and check the website of the manufacturer to see if they are a dealer, WE ARE NOT STUPID. If there is not dealer by that name in that town, we hand it back to them and ask them how they like the internet now and maybe they should send it back to have the problem fixed. This only works b/c most of the shops in our area do the same, the ones that don't bring us the regs when they screw them up.

After being out of diving for a while, I got back in. My old LDS had been sold to a group I did not like. I walked into a local shop and asked about servicing the regs. No questions were asked about where I bought them. I was actually "freely given" information about recall issues and other potential problems that may be encountered with service. The owner went out of the way to service it quickly for me for an upcoming trip. The fee, was his standard that he charged for all his customers. In the last 6 weeks I have happily spent over $1,000 on miscelaneous gear and classes and will be going back to see him for additional training. At the same time I have purchased a computer of the web, because I was not willing to pay double the price for the equipment that he sold.

I can tell you, if I got a hard time about where my equipment was bought, that would be the last time I went into the store.

PS: If a customer is smart enough to buy from the web, they are probably smart enough to look up a the name of "dive shop where they used to live".

 

[scubapro50]

Any business that is undercut in price feels that it should be legal. Take the mom and pop hardware store .... they can't compete with Lowes or Home Depot. I'm an accountant that charges $100/hour to work on taxes .... I have a masters in accounting and when I hear people complain about getting their taxes done incorrectly by H & R BLOCK I tell them you get what you pay for. If you can't compete on price then you should make sure that you beat them on service. You still need to be in the ballpark on price but your individual attention to "customer needs" should make up the difference in price. Buying used scuba equipment anywhere is a risk. How many customers buying used Dacor Pacer regulators off E Bay don't know they can't find parts. Or how about the SCUBAPRO NIGHTHAWK BC new at your LDS it's $700 but off the net you can get it for $300 .... wonder why it's a counterfit ? The net retailers don't generally have good after sale service. Once they get your money and they sent you the product they have done their jobs. If your have a problem or need an adjustment then you'r e out of luck. At best the web retailer will let you exchange the defective product whithin a short period of time. The LDS where I purchased my Scubapro equipment knew the meaning of customer service. Throwing in 25 free air fills (which costs the shop very little per fill in the long run) made up the difference in price. Also it was a good way to get that customer back into the shop so you can talk to him about other equipment he may need or that trip the shop was planning. Once again it all about CUSTOMER SERVICE that keeps you scuba customers loyal to you and your shop and keeps it profitable.

 

[Nomaster]

Any business that is undercut in price feels that it should(n't) be legal....
The LDS where I purchased my Scubapro equipment knew the meaning of customer service. Throwing in 25 free air fills (which costs the shop very little per fill in the long run) made up the difference in price. Also it was a good way to get that customer back into the shop so you can talk to him about other equipment he may need or that trip the shop was planning. Once again it all about CUSTOMER SERVICE that keeps you scuba customers loyal to you and your shop and keeps it profitable.

Did you read this closely tpabchbum? Firewalker?
Are you guys getting anything positive out of this thread?
Can't put any money in the till/safe if it's always closed.

Tom

 

[RiverRat]

Is selling Life Support Equipment on the Net Ethical ?

I think the BS some of the 5* shops are pulling is VERY UN-ETHICAL! I recently went to a DiveMaster intro. It went well until they got to the part about "you need to use gear the shop sells" etc. I almost rolled over backwards. This person also mentioned that Divemastering was like Amw** (Multi-Level Marketing) but you don't have to "hide stuff" when you talk to prospects. Can you believe that crap? OK, so I'm PAYING this guy to TEACH me to be a better diver, but he doesn't REALLY WANT to teach me anything unless I BUY MORE gear like the shop uses (and yes, SPLIT fins were mentioned AGAIN! I HATE SPLIT FINS! And I've never even tried them!) whether I'm fully kitted up or not? Give me a break. I see how it works now. It IS like an MLM business. They teach you to dive a little. Try to sell you stuff you may not want or need hoping you're too stupid to know any better. They train you a little more. Sell you a little more gear. Tell you that you'll drown in a BP/W and try to sell you the most expensive BC they have with split fins, a computer and regulator at twice the price. Then, regardless of how much money you've spent with the shop, try and turn you into a **** clone, so that YOU, in turn, can rope in some more newbies and treat them just as you've been treated? NO THANKS. I'm not buying. If I ever get involved with the diving business I won't be doing it that way. Sorry, had to vent. Maybe should put this in whine and cheese

 

[Nomaster]

I think the BS some of the 5* shops are pulling is VERY UN-ETHICAL! . . . Then, regardless of how much money you've spent with the shop, try and turn you into a **** clone, so that YOU, in turn, can rope in some more newbies and treat them just as you've been treated? NO THANKS. I'm not buying. If I ever get involved with the diving business I won't be doing it that way. Sorry, had to vent. Maybe should put this in whine and cheese

Yes, I can believe it; luckily, like you, not all shop owners play the game that way. I cannot imagine how prevalent it is, but I've been pretty lucky so far.

Tom

 

[RonFrank]

So let's get this straight. You think internet sales are unethical - so you don't like LP for instance? You think they should open a real store? Would it be more ethical if they did? Next door to you?

Most internet stores have storefronts. This is true of the largest diveshops (LP), the largest camera retailers, the largest outdoor sports shops...the list goes on.

IMO when a shop says they can not compete with online prices, what they are REALLY saying is they can't compete against large volume retail. The internet has certainly exploded that market, however it has also opened the market to smaller shops as selling online is not that expensive to do.

After attending a PADI class last weekend, I was not shocked at all to find that the instructor had the same attitude as the original poster. Selling *LIFE SUPPORT* equipment online is unethical, so pay THEIR shop close to 100% OVER LP prices, and at LEAST 50% OVER authorized online dealers like ScubaToys because they *back* the equipment?

While they have a VERY good shop, I watched the sale of a regulator to a customer, and they basically handed him a box. While I sure if there are issues, they would gladly *exchange* the product, or service it, the inital sale was NO different from getting a box in the mail.

I seriously attempted to purcase some gear I was interested in, but JUST could NOT bring myself to do it. I tried a Genesis Panview mask, and decided to purchase one, but they wanted $69. Minues the 20% discount (for taking a class), add back in the tax, and it was still $60. I ordered one from LP for $27 including shipping... less than half....

Sorry LDS, I will use them for training, and service, but I just can NOT justify those types of markups...

Ron

 

[RonFrank]

You guys must not have very good dive shops. We push education throughout your diving life. I (nor anyone who works at our dive shop) is a used car salesman, we enjoy our integrity above all. We are not in the business of selling you the "best" equipment out there. We are in the business of selling you the "best equipment out there for you".

However, what you are going to find, and this is starting to happen all over the place in Florida, is dive shops being able to tell if you are in just looking and then going to buy off the internet. THOSE PEOPLE GET ZERO TIME, ZERO ANSWERS, AND ZERO CUSTOMER SERVICE. Also, bring in a reg bought off the internet for us to put together, $150 bucks, buy a reg from us, FREE CHECKUPS B/C SERVICE. Bring in a reg with a problem and we will ask you why you didn't take to the place where you bought it, most people will say they bought it from a dive shop where they used to live, so we ask the name of the shop and check the website of the manufacturer to see if they are a dealer, WE ARE NOT STUPID. If there is not dealer by that name in that town, we hand it back to them and ask them how they like the internet now and maybe they should send it back to have the problem fixed. This only works b/c most of the shops in our area do the same, the ones that don't bring us the regs when they screw them up.

Wow, I'd really like to know the name of the DS you work for so I can AVOID THEM AT ALL COSTS!!

Grilling a customer who needs service work done? Charging $150 to attach a low pressure hose to first stage? And how EXACTLY do you go about determining if a customer is going to purchase online? Does it occur to you Rocket Scientist employees that a customer maybe *shopping* DIFFERENT LDS's for advice on Brands that the other may not carry?

Dude, you need to SERIOUSLY get a clue. When someone walks through YOUR door you can try and Earn a customer. Piss them off, and you will DEFINATLEY loose a customer.

I purchased a Zeagle Ranger BCD from a friend of a friend. Used maybe on twenty dives, three years old. Am I a BAD unethical dangerous person?

ANY diveshop that gives me a third degree about where I purchased ANYTHING can get ready for me to walk. THEN I will go online and Tell EVERYONE who will listen to avoid them as well as telling EVERYONE I know who dives to do the same...

So what was that LS name again in FL?

Ron