Is ScubaBoard representative of the diving population at large?

[drrich2]

The issue has come up before, what is scuba diving, and that it is not just breathing underwater (at least that's not what people want)? I've been mulling over this for some time; what is the underlying common denominator of scuba diving?

My answer at this point in time: Exploration.

Some history buffs like exploring wrecks.

TS&M, Tstorm & a number of others, exploring caves is a big draw.

For me, exploring beautiful coral reefs with interesting living structures, varied and often predatory marine life (e.g.: moray eels, barracuda, sharks) and some bizarre (e.g.: scorpionfish, anemones, crabs) is a big draw.

For some people, exploring the sensation of flight, weightlessness, immersion, may be a big deal. After all, why do some people think it would be neat to walk on the moon?

Some people enjoy knowing they've explored parts of varied exotic destinations practically off-limits to most people (e.g.: non-divers).

So I think your marketing message may need to focus on empowering your target demographic to explore another world. With a hint of exclusivity. At that point, a self-contained underwater breathing apparatus is just a means to an end.

Richard.

 

[freewillie]

I really haven't had the chance to respond but have lurked a little bit. My other duties both professionally for my job and for my sport and Boy Scout leadership duties have prevented me from posting but I did take the chance to quickly complete the survey few days ago.

But for the most part I would say that Scubaboard is NOT representative of the diving population as a whole. It to me is a more specialized group of either professional divers and instructors or highly specialized divers such as deep divers with doubles or cave divers or the like.

For example. Recent questions regarding buddy checks and problems with instabuddies within a few post leads to the inevitable post you are a SOLO diver. You need a large pony, you are diving alone, you are your own buddy because every other diver sucks and you can only depend on yourself.

You are a new diver and ask about gear packages. Someone always chimes in that you need a back plate with wings. From that point forward everyone else then says that you need a back plate with wings and every other BC on the market is inferior to the BP/W set up because highly specialized divers that dive GUE, Fundies, doubles, and cave divers all dive BP/W set up. Then for increased diver safety you need a 7" long primary hose with bungeed necklace octopus because if you ever have an OOA situation cave diving that is the best set up to have.

Really?!!! I would argue that the vast majority of divers are vacation divers that certified on vacation and then are diving only on vacation. They may dive only a few time a year. Because they only dive a few times a year they would likely rent their gear and feel okay diving a jacket style BC even though almost all divers on Scubaboard wouldn't dive a jacket BC if given the choice. Every time the subject of split fins comes up the split haters come out in force. I hate to break it to you that most vacation divers don't care about frog kicks or helicopter kicks. Flutter kicks along a reef at recreational depths and for recreational depths are just fine for the vast majority of divers. But you need paddles and you need to do a frog kick you don't kick up silt in the cave. Okay, that's fine, but the vacation diver is not in a cave and doesn't really need to worry about silt because he/she is not in a wreck, is not in a cave, and on a reef with 80+ viz silt is NOT an issue.

Take a look at the divers on a recreational dive boat. I went out just over a week ago for one day with my daughter for Thanksgiving vacation. only 10% of the boat had their own equipment and that included myself and my daughter. Everyone else had rental gear. One family of 4 from Michigan had 2 GoPro's with the teenage son and daughter but neither parents or kids had their own gear. Only a few other divers on the boat looked like they had significant diving experience. In fact, the only dive boat I've been on that every single diver looked liked they had numerous dive and had lots of experience was a night dive boat in Maui. You could just tell as every geared up and got into their kits that they had lots of experience. But that is not the rule. Most dive boats I go on in California have half the boat as a dive class. For the vacation dives most of the divers look like new divers and probably couldn't dive by themselves if they had to. In fact, most look like they had just completed OW training.

I would argue that whole threads would be started about the lack of diver safety, the lack of diver skills, the need to update equipment and why are they still diving jacket BC's if you really took the time. But, these are the majority of divers that dive. Vacation divers who only dive on vacation, did their training but never saw the need to pursue extra training because their is always a guide in warm tropical waters where they like to dive and almost always dive only on vacation. Those are the majority divers.

 

[drrich2]

Most dive boats I go on in California have half the boat as a dive class. For the vacation dives most of the divers look like new divers and probably couldn't dive by themselves if they had to. In fact, most look like they had just completed OW training.

Wow! From postings online, I had the impression the typical California boat was loaded up with seasoned cold-tolerant 7-mm wetsuit or dry suit wear'in low-viz. tolerate'in 'We don't need no stink'in guide' types. So, lots of the folks on them are students in your experience. Interesting.

Richard.

 

[boulderjohn]

For example. Recent questions regarding buddy checks and problems with instabuddies within a few post leads to the inevitable post you are a SOLO diver. You need a large pony, you are diving alone, you are your own buddy because every other diver sucks and you can only depend on yourself.

If you check my profile, you will see that I have a fair number of recreational dives in a fair number of areas. The number of times I have seen a diver carrying a pony bottle, in my best estimate, is perhaps 5 times.

You are a new diver and ask about gear packages. Someone always chimes in that you need a back plate with wings. From that point forward everyone else then says that you need a back plate with wings and every other BC on the market is inferior to the BP/W set up ...

There have been polls on ScubaBoard in which 50% of the responders advocated BP/Ws and said that is what they use. A couple of years ago, a dive shop owner cited national statistics indicating that in the USA, less than 1% of BCD sales are BP/Ws.

because highly specialized divers that dive GUE, Fundies, doubles, and cave divers all dive BP/W set up.

I did most of my early technical diving training with UTD, an offshoot of GUE. When I switched to TDI while staying in South Florida, I had to explain my previous training. I did a number of training dives divers on a number of different boats with other technical divers over quite a period of time. During that time, I found one person who had heard of GUE and no one who had heard of UTD.

Then for increased diver safety you need a 7" long primary hose with bungeed necklace octopus because if you ever have an OOA situation cave diving that is the best set up to have.

That's what I use, and I do believe it is the best way to do things. I rarely meet anyone on a dive that uses that system. I have to explain before every dive how I will donate air in an emergency.

 

[Bob DBF]

Wow! From postings online, I had the impression the typical California boat was loaded up with seasoned cold-tolerant 7-mm wetsuit or dry suit wear'in low-viz. tolerate'in 'We don't need no stink'in guide' types. So, lots of the folks on them are students in your experience. Interesting.

Richard.

Depends on the boat and the day. The seasoned cold-tolerant 7-mm wetsuit or dry suit wear'in low-viz. tolerate'in 'We don't need no stink'in guide' types are not likely to be on the same trip as the OW or AOW class boat, but I have been. In a lot of areas you can have an easy dive in one direction and a very different one in another, if you want it.


Bob

 

[freewillie]

Wow! From postings online, I had the impression the typical California boat was loaded up with seasoned cold-tolerant 7-mm wetsuit or dry suit wear'in low-viz. tolerate'in 'We don't need no stink'in guide' types. So, lots of the folks on them are students in your experience. Interesting.

Richard.

I've only been on 4 dive boats in So Cal not including the three for training. The only one that did not have a lot of students was one that my LDS chartered half the boat. The other three boats featured a fair amount of students. Actually I was unaware that the boat out of Dana Point was actually affiliated with Sports Chalet but that was why half of that boat was on an OW check out training dive. But half of another boat going to Catalina also featured mostly students doing some sort of training dive.

 

[RJP]

Wow! From postings online, I had the impression the typical California boat was loaded up with seasoned cold-tolerant 7-mm wetsuit or dry suit wear'in low-viz. tolerate'in 'We don't need no stink'in guide' types. So, lots of the folks on them are students in your experience. Interesting.

Richard.

You're thinking of NJ.

:d


---------- Post added December 10th, 2014 at 10:53 AM ----------

​

So I think your marketing message may need to focus on empowering your target demographic to explore another world. With a hint of exclusivity. At that point, a self-contained underwater breathing apparatus is just a means to an end.

Richard.

Suppose I told you that, overall, you're wrong? Would you believe me?

Or would you want me to prove it to you?

:cool2:

 

[widget]

I really haven't had the chance to respond but have lurked a little bit. My other duties both professionally for my job and for my sport and Boy Scout leadership duties have prevented me from posting but I did take the chance to quickly complete the survey few days ago.

But for the most part I would say that Scubaboard is NOT representative of the diving population as a whole. It to me is a more specialized group of either professional divers and instructors or highly specialized divers such as deep divers with doubles or cave divers or the like.

For example. Recent questions regarding buddy checks and problems with instabuddies within a few post leads to the inevitable post you are a SOLO diver. You need a large pony, you are diving alone, you are your own buddy because every other diver sucks and you can only depend on yourself.

You are a new diver and ask about gear packages. Someone always chimes in that you need a back plate with wings. From that point forward everyone else then says that you need a back plate with wings and every other BC on the market is inferior to the BP/W set up because highly specialized divers that dive GUE, Fundies, doubles, and cave divers all dive BP/W set up. Then for increased diver safety you need a 7" long primary hose with bungeed necklace octopus because if you ever have an OOA situation cave diving that is the best set up to have.

Really?!!! I would argue that the vast majority of divers are vacation divers that certified on vacation and then are diving only on vacation. They may dive only a few time a year. Because they only dive a few times a year they would likely rent their gear and feel okay diving a jacket style BC even though almost all divers on Scubaboard wouldn't dive a jacket BC if given the choice. Every time the subject of split fins comes up the split haters come out in force. I hate to break it to you that most vacation divers don't care about frog kicks or helicopter kicks. Flutter kicks along a reef at recreational depths and for recreational depths are just fine for the vast majority of divers. But you need paddles and you need to do a frog kick you don't kick up silt in the cave. Okay, that's fine, but the vacation diver is not in a cave and doesn't really need to worry about silt because he/she is not in a wreck, is not in a cave, and on a reef with 80+ viz silt is NOT an issue.

Take a look at the divers on a recreational dive boat. I went out just over a week ago for one day with my daughter for Thanksgiving vacation. only 10% of the boat had their own equipment and that included myself and my daughter. Everyone else had rental gear. One family of 4 from Michigan had 2 GoPro's with the teenage son and daughter but neither parents or kids had their own gear. Only a few other divers on the boat looked like they had significant diving experience. In fact, the only dive boat I've been on that every single diver looked liked they had numerous dive and had lots of experience was a night dive boat in Maui. You could just tell as every geared up and got into their kits that they had lots of experience. But that is not the rule. Most dive boats I go on in California have half the boat as a dive class. For the vacation dives most of the divers look like new divers and probably couldn't dive by themselves if they had to. In fact, most look like they had just completed OW training.

I would argue that whole threads would be started about the lack of diver safety, the lack of diver skills, the need to update equipment and why are they still diving jacket BC's if you really took the time. But, these are the majority of divers that dive. Vacation divers who only dive on vacation, did their training but never saw the need to pursue extra training because their is always a guide in warm tropical waters where they like to dive and almost always dive only on vacation. Those are the majority divers.

I already "liked" this, but it is just so on the button I had to agree as well.

I would also agree Scubaboard is not typical of the diving population at large, as you say, the average diver is just there to pass the time in a pleasant manner and look at pretty fishes, he couldn't care less about the merits of one set of gear against the other because he is never going to buy any, he doesn't care to further his training because he only dives 3 times a year, and in any event he is prepared to pay to be looked after and mollycoddled, he is not interested in regulator cracking pressures and HP poppet and seat wear, he just wants to float in gin clear water with little current and zero surge, maybe take a few photo's on his Go pro to show his mates back home, when he gets back to shore he wants to drop his gear and head for the tiki bar,.....next year he will do the same.

 

[EFX]

The issue has come up before, what is scuba diving, and that it is not just breathing underwater (at least that's not what people want)? I've been mulling over this for some time; what is the underlying common denominator of scuba diving? My answer at this point in time: Exploration. So I think your marketing message may need to focus on empowering your target demographic to explore another world. With a hint of exclusivity. At that point, a self-contained underwater breathing apparatus is just a means to an end.

When I got started in diving breathing underwater was the only attraction. But I do agree that in any marketing campaign we need more reasons...exploration being one of them. There is a precursor to exploration: adventure. A lot of people are going to create sub-categories of adventure: no risk and potential risk being the main two. I'm not in marketing but I'm sure we need to know who are target audience is. We don't want to cast our net too wide and throw away our money on people who no matter how we present scuba diving, we'll never get into the sport because it simply is too dangerous.

A fairly successful marketing strategy has been association. The Cheerios commercial comes to mind. The father (smiling) asks his son (also smiling who is also cute and huggable; all the qualities mothers like who will probably be the ones buying the cereal), what flavor of Cheerios do we want today. Out of about 6 boxes arranged neatly on the shelf the son says Cheerios with cinnamon. Then he says, "Or we could have Cheerios with honey". This game goes on for a couple more flavors that would have most average fathers pulling out the bacon and eggs. Then, while the ever-patient father pauses perplexingly the son says "Or we can have the Cheerios we enjoy together." The wierd thing is you never find out which cereal the father picked. Of course, it doesn't matter at this point. If the moms aren't crying from all the syrupy sentimentality then surely they're running for their shopping lists. You see, it's not about the cereal. It's about the love, the glowing father-son relationship, the seemingly happy trip down blueberry lane. General Mills is not selling Cheerios -- they're selling happiness and love (don't we all want that?!)

We need commercials or radio spots that associate diving with enduring qualities. How about showing a distraut couple where the wife dropped her expensive bracelet into the drink. Some scuba divers overhear and offer to retrieve the bracelet. The quality: friendliness and unconditional helpfulness. Or, for the ladies, show a group of scuba diving women coming back from a dive relaxing around a table saying how peaceful it is to be underwater and be able to get away from the home responsibilities. Show fit women and have them say "Wow, that was a great workout and I don't feel as tired as when I work out in the gym."

 

[boulderjohn]

We need commercials or radio spots that associate diving with enduring qualities. How about showing a distraut couple where the wife dropped her expensive bracelet into the drink. Some scuba divers overhear and offer to retrieve the bracelet. The quality: friendliness and unconditional helpfulness. Or, for the ladies, show a group of scuba diving women coming back from a dive relaxing around a table saying how peaceful it is to be underwater and be able to get away from the home responsibilities. Show fit women and have them say "Wow, that was a great workout and I don't feel as tired as when I work out in the gym."

While that would help, here's your problem--who pays for those ads?

When General Mills makes commercials that work, General Mills reaps the benefit of increased sales of their products.

If a great scuba commercial sends people into their local dive shop to purchase dive gear, the local dive shop does well, but local dive shops cannot possibly devote the kind of money needed for such a campaign. Equipment manufacturers can benefit, but so will all the other equipment manufacturers who did not put any money into that campaign. Dive agencies will get some money from increased instruction, but that is only a tiny slice of the pie, not enough to offset the cost of that advertising. Additionally, there are more than 100 agencies. If one of them--say PADI--bankrolls the commercials, losing money in the process, then all the rest that did not contribute will be the ones who benefit.