Is ScubaBoard against local dive shops?

[boulderjohn]

As an example, I was notifyied by a shop owner that becuase he was a Scuba Pro dealer, he could not sell/service Aqua Lung. If this is true, then the manufacturers are contractually placing the LDS guys at a huge disadvantage.
...
Here in Sitka, the LDS owner in the early 2000's sold atomic. Swore by them, thought they were the cats meow... He sold the shop to a new who went with Scuba Pro. No more Atomic parts sold locally. That 2nd guy went out of business and guess what - no support locally for Scuba Pro.

None of this has anything to do with manufacturer's policies. There is a shop in Boulder, where I live, that has sold and serviced ScubaPro, Aqualung, and Atomic for the entire 13 years I have known them. Anything you describe was a shop decision, and if they told you something different, they are trying to pass the buck.

 

[boulderjohn]

Most of you know there was a lawsuit involving SB a little while ago. It was ridiculous to begin with, but the must absurd part of it was the assertion that SB management somehow controlled what 100 SB participants wrote in their posts. With the many thousands of participants in this forum, whenever one of those weekly LDS-vs-Internet threads is started, you are bound to have participation from people who feel passionately about the subject and don't care what the SB management thinks. You will have people who had a bad experience with their LDS (yes, it happens), and they want people to know that all LDSs are like the one with which they had that bad experience. Hopefully, as the thread continues, opinions will even out, but if you are an LDS owner reading the thread, you are bound to emphasize those that attack and see the entire thread as anti-LDS.

So, because SB is a place where people are free to give their views within the TOS, you are going to read posts that are perceived to be anti-LDS. It cannot and should not be stopped.

The exception would be when an individual or group of individuals become obsessive about something. We tend to call them POV (Point of View) Warriors. When this occurs, this individual or small group of individuals floods the threads with their single-themed messages, often starting new threads continuously on the subject and taking over threads that are only marginally related to that topic. That has happened in the past on several occasions on several different topics. It becomes very disruptive, and it can give the forum a negative reputation in the eyes of whoever is being attacked--often unjustly. It can drive many participants away, never to return. When that happens, management really must act to maintain the mission of the forum. Doing what is necessary to solve that problem is in fact a difficult and delicate process.

SB would indeed be anti-LDS if it allowed a disruptive individual or group to act this way on that topic. I don't see that happening right now, and the trend in this thread seems to support that observation. I think we are seeing that LDSs around the world are starting to adjust policies to the reality of the Internet, both in sales and in social networking, just as every other business in the world is doing at the same time. Discussions about it on forums such a SB are helping them make those adjustments happen.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Lets just say $13000 for a 5000psi compressor with all the filters, a 10 bottle cascade system for around $20 grand, another 10 for a nitrox bank $20 grand, a fill station manifold $2000, nitrox premix blending system $2400, 150 tanks for exchanges $22000, and of course you can lease the building you are using as a store front. Mind you these are initial investment costs, so you will likely have an monthly overhead in the $1-2000 range.

So basically a start up cost in the 80-90000 range. I would expect that if you were in i high volume dive location and used a little bit of ingenuity as far as product placement(having sattelite locations within a 30 mile area for drop off and pick up) you can expect 7-800 fills a month after the word gets out.....if you do $8 nfor air fills and $10 for nitrox you should be able to pull in $7600 per month minus your overhead makes 5600 per month so your initial investment will be paid off in less than 2 years. Mind you that there are maintenance costs on all of this gear, and you have to pay your employees and have insurance.....this is why i figure 2 years instead of the 14-16 months that the numbers show.

Not sure where those numbers came from, but with a bit of shopping around you can put a kick-ass trimix blending system together, including a 25 CFM compressor, booster, continuous blend stick, mixing board, two whips, and enough bottles to bank about 2000 CF of air or nitrox, for about a quarter of what you've quoted. One of the independent tech instructors I deal with and have taken classes from has done just that ... and he runs it out of his garage ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TMHeimer]

a good dive shop wont get caught up in politics that forums have. one wrongly worded response can make a lot of people think less of your business. Its easier in many cases to just let the cards land where they will rather then blow them back up in the air and wait for a better response!

k, Once again good point re something I have wondered about.

 

[griffon]

Just my two cents, but the net is about disruption. SB is just one of many platforms that provide a outlet for what folks thinks and how they choose, logically, to handle their business. Arguing a SB bias makes little sense.
I think there will allways be lots of room for a good service oriented LDS, but collusion and manufactures calling the shots for them should be rements of yesterday, and transparency the way of tomorrow.

 

[theduckguru]

When you can readily find a competitor that is stating he had start up costs 75% less than you list and is already selling one of your products for 33% less than your target price, you aren't likely to make "killer profit". Florida Frogman Inc. - Florida's Premier Dive Shop

How much is required for the initial investment and how much is the return as Killer profit?

Lets just say $13000 for a 5000psi compressor with all the filters, a 10 bottle cascade system for around $20 grand, another 10 for a nitrox bank $20 grand, a fill station manifold $2000, nitrox premix blending system $2400, 150 tanks for exchanges $22000, and of course you can lease the building you are using as a store front. Mind you these are initial investment costs, so you will likely have an monthly overhead in the $1-2000 range.

So basically a start up cost in the 80-90000 range. I would expect that if you were in i high volume dive location and used a little bit of ingenuity as far as product placement(having sattelite locations within a 30 mile area for drop off and pick up) you can expect 7-800 fills a month after the word gets out.....if you do $8 nfor air fills and $10 for nitrox you should be able to pull in $7600 per month minus your overhead makes 5600 per month so your initial investment will be paid off in less than 2 years. Mind you that there are maintenance costs on all of this gear, and you have to pay your employees and have insurance.....this is why i figure 2 years instead of the 14-16 months that the numbers show.

 

[Sitkadiver]

None of this has anything to do with manufacturer's policies. There is a shop in Boulder, where I live, that has sold and serviced ScubaPro, Aqualung, and Atomic for the entire 13 years I have known them. Anything you describe was a shop decision, and if they told you something different, they are trying to pass the buck.

John,

I know you're right, because I have seen these shops in larger cities where they sell multiple product lines.

Not to beat a dead a horse, but this is the abridged version of the story I received from 2 different shop owners and an instructor here in Sitka.

Essentially, there was a successful dive shop in Sitka many years ago. The guy that owned it did many of the hydro's and vips for divers all around SE Alaska, he also taught classes, had another instructor working for him and a shop service tech. In addition to doing light commercial work, they sold all kinds of commercial and sport gear. The cuc divers would actually seek the shop out and have all their stuff worked on in Sept. while they were in town. To top all that off, the shop also ran classes through the local schools.

Anyway, the owner of the very successful shop got caught up in some other stuff and ended up selling the shop to a guy that nobody liked. The new owner did some really wierd stuff..... stuff like put his hands on female students, tell women in town their boyfriends were diving with a gay guy and therefore had to be gay themselves... long story short no one wanted to deal with him. However, he had a dealership for a manufaturer, and the manufacturer told the owner of a start-up shop that they couldn't give out two dealerships in Sitka becuase of the low population.

The wierdo guy eventually was stripped of the dealership, moved away and the start-up guy carried all the gear he wanted.

The point I took from all this drama was that if the manufacturer had simply let anyone carry their gear and sell it, everyone here would have benefitted from the new start-up shop selling the stuff becuase he ran a good business.

I've been told this by a few other people: That gear manufacturers will only give dealerships to so many shops within a geographic area or within a populaiton base in order to protect their dealers. Unfortunately for the LDS owners, internet sellers do not have those restrictions.

I have no reason to doubt these stories and I'm being vague on purpose so I don't stir up too much of the past(very small town), but if I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.

 

[boulderjohn]

J

I've been told this by a few other people: That gear manufacturers will only give dealerships to so many shops within a geographic area or within a populaiton base in order to protect their dealers. Unfortunately for the LDS owners, internet sellers do not have those restrictions.

That part is true for some manufacturers.

 

[ajduplessis]

Scubaboard is not against LDS, their members are. I am one of them that struggle to understand why shops should blatantly "rob" there clientele. I understand that a business is not charity organization and profits need to be made, but most of them abuse uninformed/new divers.

The second part is selling and not considering the clients real needs. Anything will do as long as they can make a quick buck!!

These are some of the reasons all online stores are doing well. The client is not severely over charged and they have multiple brands, they also don’t force products on you.

My 2 cents

 

[Tao of the Dive]

I feel that a place like SB makes shops come into the new age, kicking and screaming mind you, but it makes them assess their value to the customer, and the value of the customer. If it makes them change their business model, to keep up, offer relevant services, and keep customers, that's all for the better in my opinion. People who are fearful of the internet, just simply do not understand the internet and how it can influence their business model, and increase their sales and service. There are presently only three dive shops in my area, and I live one county over from any of them. But if those LDS's had better online sales mechanisms, I would buy from them in a heartbeat, because in the end, that still keeps my dollars local. But since I have to travel so far to them, and dealing with them can be such a nuisance, there are certain purchases that I make online from other retailers. But that must also figure in what I buy; If my local shops don't carry it, I will get it, even if its not from them.

And I'm also trying to switch to Hogarthian rigs for me and my buddy. Since I'm buying new regs, I'm looking at buying Hog regs, mainly because they can be serviced and repaired easier than what I'm presently using, and by me. I don't have to ship them off, or somebody a the shop order the wrong part, delaying a dive trip, or worse ruining one. I don't have to worry did they realllly do the service they said they did. Like I said, if a LDS wants to stay in business, they need to adjust their business model to reflect where they are in the scheme of things. In all business, a Darwinian approach comes to mind. Those businesses that adapt, and adjust, keep in mind what their business is and who they ultimately serve, those are the ones who will survive. But if a shop offers sub-par service or sales, cannot be relied upon, or they refuse to accept what the new style of doing business is, then perhaps they need to sell to someone with bigger ideas.

I do know that if I owned a dive shop, Pete would be on my speed dial, not only for what he knows, but the sheer connections to the industry, as well ass for advertising, and getting my brand into the hands of people who might not otherwise see it. For LDS's not to get that, it just goes to show that they have antiquated thinking.