Is ScubaBoard against local dive shops?
- Thread starter Jim Lapenta
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Scubaboard is a strong advocate for divers. Manufacturers forums, lots of topics etc. It is great source for information.
I Know that some LDS's do not like the open source of information. Some LDS's throw away the free copies of DIVE TRAINING magazine.
"We don't want our students to see the brands we don't carry"-Finger in the dike.
New and old divers benefit from hearing from others.
I Know that some LDS's do not like the open source of information. Some LDS's throw away the free copies of DIVE TRAINING magazine.
"We don't want our students to see the brands we don't carry"-Finger in the dike.
New and old divers benefit from hearing from others.
Some dive shops think that they can hate on scubaboard and/or internet retailers and get away with it because they are the air fill guys for the area... I have always loved the explination of why you should buy the same exact gear from a dive shop at twice the price of online retailers..."if we have to close our doors, you better find a way to get your air fills through your USB port"......when in reality the come back is something like this..."If you close your doors and cant fill my tanks anymore, Im going to take all the money I save by purchasing equipment online instead of in your store, and buy myself a compressor."
I found the earlier post on the pricing of a pony bottle interesting. My LDS sells tanks at a price slightly higher than some online stores, BUT they provide free vis and hydro inspections for life including an air fill after each inspection.
It doesn't take long for that to add up. On the plus side for them, When I drop and pick up tanks, I look over the new gear, upcoming travel and training options. I usually end up spending money.
Thats the only place I buy tanks now and everytime I have to pay for inspection of a tank bought elsewhere, I regret not buying from my LDS.
It doesn't take long for that to add up. On the plus side for them, When I drop and pick up tanks, I look over the new gear, upcoming travel and training options. I usually end up spending money.
Thats the only place I buy tanks now and everytime I have to pay for inspection of a tank bought elsewhere, I regret not buying from my LDS.
what dive shops sometimes fail to realize is that, without them there would be air fill co-ops popping up in the area where a group of divers split the cost on a compressor and maintenance, it is just (barely) not cost effective while the dive shop is there.
Sitkadiver
Contributor
I know we're focusing on LDS's vs. the internet, but I have an alternative view: I sort of blame the manufacturers for painting the LDS owners into a corner when it comes to selling their gear and only their gear. As an example, I was notifyied by a shop owner that becuase he was a Scuba Pro dealer, he could not sell/service Aqua Lung. If this is true, then the manufacturers are contractually placing the LDS guys at a huge disadvantage.
Since this thread started with comment about HOG, letting redress those form my perspective. As someone whose been diving for 25 years, I have a collected a pile or two of excess gear. There aren't too many shops that could service all my gear, since I have stuff from manufactures who are no longer around. Additiionally, I live on an island in Alaska that no longer has an LDS.(Sitka's on Baranoff Island) Thus, thru necesitty, I have to be able to service my own gear.
HOG, by embracing the fact that most experienced divers end up being DIYers at some level, has totally created a positive attitude with it's customers by supporting their efforts to maintain their gear to as high a level as possible. If I was in the market for a new set of regs, I doubt my choice would be anything but HOG for this very reason. This is nothing against the quality of the other guys products, but have you tried to get parts for Mares lately? The last time I tried to contact Scuba Pro about a battery, I got no response. One of the good things going with Aqua Lung is that the parts have continued to be the same in many of their regs over the years. My Conshelf XX had the same diaphramg as a Conshelf from 20 years prior. And I think the Titan parts are similar today. The Kirby Morgan hats all use conshelf 2nd stage parts that are readily available. I doubt that Kirby Morgan would stil be in business if every 3-5 years they introduced a new helmet with all new parts and charged accordingly.
Here in Sitka, the LDS owner in the early 2000's sold atomic. Swore by them, thought they were the cats meow... He sold the shop to a new who went with Scuba Pro. No more Atomic parts sold locally. That 2nd guy went out of business and guess what - no support locally for Scuba Pro. This is why HOG is catching on up here. My buddy Herb, who did a ton of research, decided on HOG becuase he could service them himself. It doesn't matter if the next dive shop to open in Sitka sells that gear or not, Herb will have well maintained gear and be diving it for long time to come.
I think the idea of free trade is a load of balogne if the manufacturers will not support their core customer base by freeing their own markets.(God forbid I dive a Cyclon while wearing Jet fins) We have now run into the problem of in-fighting over brand names, not becuase one guys gear is that much better, but becuase no one want to admit that they don't want to support the diver after he buys the latest, greatest wiz bang whatama callit.
Not every diver chooses to work on his own regs, but htose of us that do have been gravitating to manufacturers that are easier to deal with in that respect. It's my opinion that the manufacturers should start charting a new course in customer service and support. Then and only then will the LDS owners be able to compete long term with the internet.
Since this thread started with comment about HOG, letting redress those form my perspective. As someone whose been diving for 25 years, I have a collected a pile or two of excess gear. There aren't too many shops that could service all my gear, since I have stuff from manufactures who are no longer around. Additiionally, I live on an island in Alaska that no longer has an LDS.(Sitka's on Baranoff Island) Thus, thru necesitty, I have to be able to service my own gear.
HOG, by embracing the fact that most experienced divers end up being DIYers at some level, has totally created a positive attitude with it's customers by supporting their efforts to maintain their gear to as high a level as possible. If I was in the market for a new set of regs, I doubt my choice would be anything but HOG for this very reason. This is nothing against the quality of the other guys products, but have you tried to get parts for Mares lately? The last time I tried to contact Scuba Pro about a battery, I got no response. One of the good things going with Aqua Lung is that the parts have continued to be the same in many of their regs over the years. My Conshelf XX had the same diaphramg as a Conshelf from 20 years prior. And I think the Titan parts are similar today. The Kirby Morgan hats all use conshelf 2nd stage parts that are readily available. I doubt that Kirby Morgan would stil be in business if every 3-5 years they introduced a new helmet with all new parts and charged accordingly.
Here in Sitka, the LDS owner in the early 2000's sold atomic. Swore by them, thought they were the cats meow... He sold the shop to a new who went with Scuba Pro. No more Atomic parts sold locally. That 2nd guy went out of business and guess what - no support locally for Scuba Pro. This is why HOG is catching on up here. My buddy Herb, who did a ton of research, decided on HOG becuase he could service them himself. It doesn't matter if the next dive shop to open in Sitka sells that gear or not, Herb will have well maintained gear and be diving it for long time to come.
I think the idea of free trade is a load of balogne if the manufacturers will not support their core customer base by freeing their own markets.(God forbid I dive a Cyclon while wearing Jet fins) We have now run into the problem of in-fighting over brand names, not becuase one guys gear is that much better, but becuase no one want to admit that they don't want to support the diver after he buys the latest, greatest wiz bang whatama callit.
Not every diver chooses to work on his own regs, but htose of us that do have been gravitating to manufacturers that are easier to deal with in that respect. It's my opinion that the manufacturers should start charting a new course in customer service and support. Then and only then will the LDS owners be able to compete long term with the internet.
On the contrary, if you are in a location that has alot of divers(florida, etc.) and are willing to make your operation high volume, it doesnt matter how many dive shops are in the area you will be able to outprice them and still make a killer profit. The drawbak is getting the capital for the initial investment.
theduckguru
Contributor
How much is required for the initial investment and how much is the return as Killer profit?
I've figured out that I could build a fill station for blending anything and banking up through any trimix and nitrox blend at high pressure for about $15-20kk (e.g, slightly above the cost of a big live aboard trip for the wife and I). It's not unattainable to be the gas provider for your group of friends. If you know four other divers it's $3k to get started and a couple hundred a year for maintenance.
It'll never pay for itself, but there are other advantages to having your own compressor and banks. Convenience for one, always having access to the right mix for the dive you want to do (or banking all of the standard gases if you happen to be a GUE diver) for instance.
It'll never pay for itself, but there are other advantages to having your own compressor and banks. Convenience for one, always having access to the right mix for the dive you want to do (or banking all of the standard gases if you happen to be a GUE diver) for instance.
Lets just say $13000 for a 5000psi compressor with all the filters, a 10 bottle cascade system for around $20 grand, another 10 for a nitrox bank $20 grand, a fill station manifold $2000, nitrox premix blending system $2400, 150 tanks for exchanges $22000, and of course you can lease the building you are using as a store front. Mind you these are initial investment costs, so you will likely have an monthly overhead in the $1-2000 range.
So basically a start up cost in the 80-90000 range. I would expect that if you were in i high volume dive location and used a little bit of ingenuity as far as product placement(having sattelite locations within a 30 mile area for drop off and pick up) you can expect 7-800 fills a month after the word gets out.....if you do $8 nfor air fills and $10 for nitrox you should be able to pull in $7600 per month minus your overhead makes 5600 per month so your initial investment will be paid off in less than 2 years. Mind you that there are maintenance costs on all of this gear, and you have to pay your employees and have insurance.....this is why i figure 2 years instead of the 14-16 months that the numbers show.
So basically a start up cost in the 80-90000 range. I would expect that if you were in i high volume dive location and used a little bit of ingenuity as far as product placement(having sattelite locations within a 30 mile area for drop off and pick up) you can expect 7-800 fills a month after the word gets out.....if you do $8 nfor air fills and $10 for nitrox you should be able to pull in $7600 per month minus your overhead makes 5600 per month so your initial investment will be paid off in less than 2 years. Mind you that there are maintenance costs on all of this gear, and you have to pay your employees and have insurance.....this is why i figure 2 years instead of the 14-16 months that the numbers show.
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