Is safe second really needed?

[Jonny boy]

I'm suppressing the urge to channel GI3.

After experiencing a loss of gas, exit single-file from a narrow, silted out cave or wreck when the only guide out is your reel. Add a few stage and deco bottles to your list of things to manage. Then ask the question again if the reasons for a backup are still unclear.

The reasons for a backup don't change merely because the environment changes.

errrrr, i fail to see the link behind exiting a cave using touch only, with stage bottles hanging off and sharing gas and doing a NDL open water dive.
The OP expressly stated that his question was based on an open water dive staying within the NDL. As per most tables you can do an ascent to the surface at any point (unless you come within 3 pressure groups of the NDL etc etc yada yada yada) hence you are not in an overhead environment with a deco obligation, yet you insist on making that comparison......why is that? The dive described wasn't a 30,000ft penetration into Wakulla, there were probably no scooters, no deco bottles, hell if it was an open water NDL dive it was probably on a single tank!!!! Why is it that DIR divers cannot simply answer a question with a straightforward normal answer (I understand that this is a a rash gereralization.....sorry) and without the need to 'Channel GI3'...........
Rant off

In answer to the OP's question.............no reason at all provided both you and the buddy are efficient and capable buddy breathers

 

[fdog]

<snip>
So here is the true question can anyone give me a valid reason why I should carry a "octo" on open water dives? And further more a situation where buddy breathing would not work, but an "octo" would. Please justify your reasoning and back it up with a story if possible. <snip>

Okay. As requested, here's a story where an octo was a good idea.

I know everyone will read this and say "that wouldn't happen to me", but, here the diver had a malfunctioning second stage and the buddy was out of reach.


All the best, James

 

[TSandM]

If you dive habitually with this buddy, and both of you are completely comfortable buddy breathing, and you would be fine with having somebody ELSE swim up to you and mug you for your reg and not give it back . . .

You're probably fine doing what you are doing. For me, I like the convenience and simplicity of having all the setups I have be the same. Open water or cave, I dive the same arrangement, and it makes life easy.

 

[Timoblue]

And I have even received a "Hell Yeah, stick it to him" from an old timer.

Hell no

Old timers and there wishful input Bless!

Personally i don't do OW without mine m8.. Never really thought about it not being there and not having it around when i dive.

Its all about comfort and personal choice i guess. If i can help myself or someone else with my octo then thats why i keep it.

 

[elan]

I have not read all the replies yet but my understanding of octo necessity is: It's no more than your courtesy to your buddy. You just give your buddy convenience of not being forced to buddy breath through one reg which is imho more difficult for novice divers. So if you have an experienced guy as a buddy it would not matter I think but for inexperienced diver that can be a burden.

 

[elan]

Back in the '70's when I got certified, buddy breathing was taught as a skill that needed to be mastered to pass the course; just like mask clearing. I am not sure this skill is even taught anymore. Don't think the time to learn is when a person is out of air at 60 feet.

I cannot say for all the schools but my instructor was teaching body breathing when I was taking the class a year ago. Though he made a reference that now this is "not really mandatory as everyone has an octo, but is very usefull skill to have"

 

[PfcAJ]

I'm suppressing the urge to channel GI3.

After experiencing a loss of gas, exit single-file from a narrow, silted out cave or wreck when the only guide out is your reel. Add a few stage and deco bottles to your list of things to manage. Then ask the question again if the reasons for a backup are still unclear.

The reasons for a backup don't change merely because the environment changes.

What on earth are you talking about? Something tells me that you don't really know.

Please. Explain. For the benefit of everyone reading this thread.

 

[DaleC]

Seeing as you asked... Because it is _____ up if you dive around other divers (which it sounds like you do).

To me, removing your octo in an era where divers are not taught to buddy breath effectively is a selfish move designed to impress other divers with how "terminally unique" you are but what you are really saying through your actions is: "don't neccisarily look to me for help if you need it - I'll only help on my old, out dated terms." That's good if everbody understands the rules but irresponsible if they do not. If you are so experienced I'm surprised you couldn't figure that out.

If you are soloing or diving a site where other divers are not present I don't see a problem, I believe in doing whatever you want in those situations; but around other divers, if you cared about someone other than yourself or your immediate buddy you wouldn't remove a piece of safety gear designed to aid THE OTHER GUY. Maybe that's why the DM's give you the dirty looks. Their training asks them think of the other guy.

If you can't keep your octo clipped off perhaps a OW refresher course is in order. After all, you're the one removing it so I assume you're the one with the problem. Even with my low dive count I managed to figure out how to bungee the back up. Was it really such a problem for you?

Hope I didn't sugar coat that too much but I'm not impressed.

 

[weaserm99]

In a simple answer i think it is. I see a lot of divers that try to cut something out of their set up because they dont feel that they need it anymore. Yes the octopus does make it simpler for an out of air emergency. I remember being in Tobermory Ontario one time when there were two divers, one had just frozen his regulator, when he went to his buddy (who was diving with an air 2 system) the buddy refused to give the guy with the free flow his primary regulator. Luckily an instructor saw this and swam over and gave the guy his octopus. These two divers were not trained by the shop i work for, we prefer to teach the octopus method because it is so simple. The reality is that in a true emergency are you going to be willing to take your regulator out of your mouth the give it someone else, now with buddy breathing your partner has to give back the regulator, if they are panicked then who knows if you will get it back.

 

[Sas]

To me, removing your octo in an era where divers are not taught to buddy breath effectively is a selfish move designed to impress other divers with how "terminally unique" you are

I think you've hit the nail on the head there DaleC!