Is PADI Cavern Diver course worth it?

[VaeVix]

Having no cave experience (but interrested by a cavern course myself) my impression is simply that the goal of the course is different :
- Cavern courses at cave agencies aims at building a foundation for more advanced (and tec) cave diving
- PADI Cavern course aims at preventing rec divers from killing themselves in swimthroughs or under an overhang

Both goals can be valuable, depending on your intentions, the first one is more thorough, the second one easier but if it is what you need, why not.

 

[Reku]

Any course can be judged solely by the instructor - that said a cavern course will only benefit you. There is no downside to taking the course. Other then you know becoming a cave diving addict and then spending every waking moment trying to get back to the caves.

The cavern course can be tough because you need to have a solid grasp of the basics of diving and be able to do them without thinking. Cavern isn't really a place to be learning basic NON-cave skills. If you come prepared you will leave rewarded, if you come unprepared it's going to be hell.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Having no cave experience (but interrested by a cavern course myself) my impression is simply that the goal of the course is different :
- Cavern courses at cave agencies aims at building a foundation for more advanced (and tec) cave diving
- PADI Cavern course aims at preventing rec divers from killing themselves in swimthroughs or under an overhang
. . .

I don't think that's a universal distinction. My non-PADI cavern instructor holds his cavern course out as both the first step in the cave training progression AND as a safety course for OW divers who may have no intention of doing cave training. I suspect many other instructors see their cavern courses as serving both purposes. I would not automatically assume PADI intends their course to serve only the second purpose just because they are not a cave training agency.

 

[PhatD1ver]

I don't think that's a universal distinction. My non-PADI cavern instructor holds his cavern course out as both the first step in the cave training progression AND as a safety course for OW divers who may have no intention of doing cave training. I suspect many other instructors see their cavern courses as serving both purposes. I would not automatically assume PADI intends their course to serve only the second purpose just because they are not a cave training agency.

And that's kind of my point with why there has to be any degrading of the course or the agency for any reason. People are behind the training, everything I've seen shows that agencies do their best to provide good training materials and ensure instructors are qualified to teach and qualify new students (as ensuring that a Cavern instructor is actuall CAVE qualified). But if something fails its rarely systemic, and more a human factor.

 

[Jack Hammer]

And that's kind of my point with why there has to be any degrading of the course or the agency for any reason. People are behind the training, everything I've seen shows that agencies do their best to provide good training materials and ensure instructors are qualified to teach and qualify new students (as ensuring that a Cavern instructor is actuall CAVE qualified). But if something fails its rarely systemic, and more a human factor.

Your experiences and mine seem to be vastly different.... ☺

 

[VaeVix]

I don't think that's a universal distinction. My non-PADI cavern instructor holds his cavern course out as both the first step in the cave training progression AND as a safety course for OW divers who may have no intention of doing cave training. I suspect many other instructors see their cavern courses as serving both purposes. I would not automatically assume PADI intends their course to serve only the second purpose just because they are not a cave training agency.

Agreed, and a multi-agency instructor can give you a PADI card but a thorough cavern course. I'd say that a cavern agency course will always serve both purpose while a PADI course might only serve the safety one (in which case another cavern course might be needed before progressing to intro to cave).

 

[The Chairman]

I'm pretty sensitive to agency bashing... but I haven't seen that here. In actuality, we don't allow agency bashing on ScubaBoard and if you feel that any post is bashing, then please report it so we can evaluate it and take the appropriate action or inaction.

Saying you don't like a course is not bashing. Comparing course requirements is not bashing. Pointing out deficiencies in a course is not bashing. Constantly chasing an agency around and stating that it's unsafe at any depth, or using bogus acronyms like "Put Another Dollar In", "Not Another Underwater Idiot" or "Stupid Dive Instructors" would be bashing. See the difference?

The instructors makes all the difference and I am glad I've had six overhead instructors. Some awarded me a card, some were only there for advice and a couple simply gave me a card. No, I would not recommend all of them, either for one reason or another. That's especially applies to the one who simply gave me a card. Still, I think it's best for anyone wanting to risk their life in an overhead environment to mix it up and learn from as many instructors as possible. I've gleaned something from each one of them and a few showed me things I avoid. It's all good.

I agree that instructors look at the name on your card more than the agency listed there. I'm not a cave instructor, but I often have a good idea what kind of diver to expect when I know who their instructor was. It's not fool proof either. Some are great divers in spite of their instructors. Some are poor divers even though they had the best of instruction. It can only give me a clue as to what they know and don't know.

 

[Slow Old Diver]

I am NOT a PADI instructor but have taken many PADI courses. The material was well written and topics covered completely. I am a IANTD and NAUI instructor and teach cavern. With that out of the way I think the problem with PADI started with the way a PADI Open Water instructor could be certified to teach a certain course. Don't know if this is the way it's done now but in the past if a PADI OW instructor was also a Full Cave Diver then they could teach a PADI Cavern class. Where as with the other training agencies the future cavern instructor has to teach a cavern course with a Instructor Trainer watching.

 

[boulderjohn]

Brief history of PADI and cave diving....

PADI had a cave diving certification course in the mid 1970s, created and administered by Sheck Exley, Rory Dickens, and Jim Wyatt. They soon thought better of it and dropped it.

For decades they had only the Cavern course, the standards for which are comparable to the standards of full cave diving instructional programs.

PADI now does have a full cave course, although it is a Tec Specialty course and not well advertised. The course and its standards were created by several veteran cave instructors, including Dan Patterson, Jim Wyatt, and some others (and I don't know who they are). It's standards are roughly the same as the standards for other full cave agencies. It was newly created when I got my NSS-CDS cave certification, and since I had met the qualifications for the PADI course as well, I got the PADI cave certification as well.

 

[Slow Old Diver]

Thanks for the info. I knew Jim Wyatt was part of the program. He has the PADI CAVE certificate framed and usually displays it. I did not know Sheck was ever part of the program.