Is PADI bad?

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the_kuang:
I received my OW certifcation from SSI -- it was a 6 week course, 4 trips to the pool to practice and 2 to the lake for certification. I looked at their AOW program and it was another month or so with two dives per specialty offered as part of the package. I just got back from another LDS where the teacher goes through PADI for AOW certificaiton. He said it's all done on a single Saturday, no in class instruction. Just head up to the lake, receive some simple instructions and perform the 5 dives.

Is this how most AOW classes are conducted? What's the best route to go for AOW?

Wow, where and how did that instuctor get certified as such? It's people like that who give PADI a bad name. Why do I only ever seem to hear PADI horror stories, and not SSI, NAUI and all the other alphabet soup of certifying agencies? AOW is NOT like what you mentioned being told. An instructor like that needs to be reported to PADI.
 
I just wanted to bring to your attention that you are replying to a thread that is over a year old, so don't count on any answers to your comments.

Just a note from one of your Friendly Neighbourhood Moderators.
 
Northeastwrecks:
I suppose that's because you have "zero need" for the increased safety and/or bottom time that Nitrox provides.

What safety benefits? Other than narsosis risks below 30m studies have shown no decrease in DCS related incidents diving nitrox on air tables shattering the "safer" myth. If there is any change its too small to be statistically significant.
It may make sense for instructors doing multiple ascent/descents many days in a row but thats about it and not really relevent to a student doing 5 dives maximum.

As for bottom time issue, a student with limited dive experience is more likely to be limited by air consumption than no stop time.

Demanding nitrox for AOW level is imho an unnecessary call. Optional fine, core before enrollment is over the top.

Nitrox has uses for some people but not others, example its 100% useless for the type of diving here where the site and depth isnt decided on until actually on the boat checking out the conditions at various sites.
 
First of all, being European there may be a different point of view... I am CMAS certified at level III (3 stars); to get the third star the training tooks several months, each week lessons in the pool and classroom, sea dives during the week-end, day and nigh; so I am a bit suspicious when I hear about "just a few dives and here's your brevet".

I say suspicious because there are a tons of things you can do in pool/sea, many exercises you can try and endless things to learn. I remember chatting with PADI friends about how a first stage worked ("There is *really* a spring in the regulator? What for?").

But it is also true that 99% of the times, you will not need put in practice what you have learnt unless there is some real emergency; and since equipment is quite reliable (IMHO) people have to do really stupid things to put themselves in danger.

So, perhaps a more "straight" approach is more time-efficient: if you learn the absolute minimum and off you go, it will do for 99% of your dives. Just to make an example, it is like to explain "Ascent at no more than 10 meters/minute" as an absolute rule as opposed to spend a few lessons to explain that it is not the speed that matters, but how differential pressure change, therefore the optimal ascent speed is related to depth and it isn't fixed... Which is better?

My opinion, for what it is worth, is that PADI has a different approach compared to CMAS with references to learning, but I would never say it is bad, just different: more "tools/technology oriented" as opposed to "knowledge oriented", more "practical" as opposed to "theoretical". You will always learn what you have to do, but not always why and how certain things work.

The only thing about PADI which I really dislike (but now CMAS has changed and adopted the same approach so ... :-) is the idea to "fragment" the knowlegde in a number of courses that could really be merged together. It seems to me more a commercial (pure $$$ driven) policy than an good way to teach people: there are so many of them that we used to joke (in the past) about the fact PADI offers "Diving on Bank Holidays", "Diving with the mother-in-law", "Diving under the rain", "Diving after lunch" and so on. But like I said, now CMAS is doing the exactly same... Long gone are the days when there were "three stars/courses for divers" and "three stars/courses for instructors" (and those courses took a lot of time).

On the other hand, I fully agree that certain skills/notions should be kept separated: an example is Nitrox training, because clearly if you are not: a) interested in Nitrox, b) have (or plan to buy) a Nitrox-compatible computer and tank, c) have a buddy with the same interests/setup you will never dive with enriched air, so what's the point of spending money and time in that (except for giving a few bucks to the diving school, of course!).

In this respect, I find very difficult to accept the fact that Nitrox is mandatory to get any advanced training. Will a dive handle better an emergency just because he/she has a tank filled with Nitrox? And if he/she has to give air to another diver in danger (regulator in free-flow, hose cut, whatever...) and that particular diver is using air (as in standard air) what deco profile has to be used? AFAIK, there is no answer to this question.

Cheers,

DareDevil
 
PADI has a great AOW course....book work...class room....pool night and 5 open water dives,,,at least at my LDS!!
 
Jeddah Aquanaut:
Wow, where and how did that instuctor get certified as such? It's people like that who give PADI a bad name. Why do I only ever seem to hear PADI horror stories, and not SSI, NAUI and all the other alphabet soup of certifying agencies? AOW is NOT like what you mentioned being told. An instructor like that needs to be reported to PADI.

That's a complete standards violation. An instructor can only take a student for a max. of 3 dives per day, and as the AOW requires 5 dives, it takes at least 2 days to complete.

The AOW requires 5 dives, including deep & nav. You also need to complete the knowledege review for each of the 5 dives.
 
String:
What safety benefits? Other than narsosis risks below 30m studies have shown no decrease in DCS related incidents diving nitrox on air tables shattering the "safer" myth. If there is any change its too small to be statistically significant.

Statistics is pretty useless in diving'. Well at least when you're bent you won't care what the probability of getting bent was. LOL

All else being equal less nitrogen means a lower probability of getting bent cuz it's the nitrogen that does it.
 
Al Mialkovsky:
Sounds like a plan to push nitrox. No reason to ever demand someone get that. I have zero need for nitrox myself, none.

Ever do 4 -5 dives a day for 5 days straight? I have on many trips to Palau, Galapagos, Exumas, etc. You can't do it without Nitrox (or going into deco).

I tried one time, on the 2nt day my dive computer would not let me go below 40 feet...and I could only go to 40 feet for 10 minutes LOL.

Nitrox is the da bomb :bomb:
 
Jeddah Aquanaut:
Wow, where and how did that instuctor get certified as such? It's people like that who give PADI a bad name. Why do I only ever seem to hear PADI horror stories, and not SSI, NAUI and all the other alphabet soup of certifying agencies? AOW is NOT like what you mentioned being told. An instructor like that needs to be reported to PADI.

I concur, sounds like someone breaking all sorts of guidelines for $$$$. That is unheard of in SSI.
 
lol, maybe you only hear about PADI horror stories because of their success and the fact that the likes of BSAC / SSAC for example are jealous as hell!

Why are they jealous? prob cos they are so incompetently run that they manage to consistently make a loss and lose members.

(If everyone else is gonna make sweeping statements then so am I!!!)
 

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