Is Monterey dangerous?

[Jim Lapenta]

I was going off a boat when I was in Monterey but kinda miffed I didn't get to do a couple shore dives (darn kid had to be graduating from the Presidio). The weekend I was there I saw no waves or surf higher than a foot or two at the Breakwater. Off of Carmel the surge though was pretty fierce and at the same time quite manageable if you did not try to fight it but rather used it to your advantage.

The ride back in was in stuff that would have kept keys boats in port. 3-6 ft seas with a 9 foot roller thrown in here and there. What I saw as the biggest issue though was not the conditions but the lack of understanding of what cool water diving is. I don't consider it cold until you get down in the 30's and low 40's. I was a part of a rescue effort on my first dive. AOW diver, nearly 30 dives but all in the Caribbean. First time in a 7 mil suit with 20 some pounds of lead on, piss poor buddy skills and buddy of the same caliber. My insta-buddy and I came up from our dive and were doing a little kelp crawl when we heard the DM yelling "drop your weights!" Then saw him sailing off the back of the boat. I got my buddy to the boat and saw him get up the ladder and then headed out after the DM. I met him about 1/2 way back in and began to loosen gear as he towed the diver.

Guy got spooked by the kelp, the cold, and the unfamiliar gear. His AOW instructor in Cayman told him he was an advanced diver now and would be fine going to Monterey to dive. We got him on the boat and gave O2 as a precaution and to calm him down. No permanent damage. But what I took away from that was the total lack of understanding of what he was getting himself into. His training to that point had not prepared him for the diving and had not reinforced the need to research new sites and get familiar with them.

I'd never been in the Pacific before. But had encountered surge in the keys, poor vis (I thought it was great! 20-30 feet or so mostly), and cold water in local lakes and quarries. But I still spent hours setting up the dives and researching conditions. It's why I hauled my dry suit with me from Pittsburgh. Aside from medical issues most diver fatalities are the result of diver error. You screw up you may get killed. Quickly and in some very nasty ways. New divers need to be told that. Maybe they'd have a little more respect and pay a little more attention.

Get the best training you can- forget the one weekend certs unless you plan to be an underwater tourist as opposed to a diver, train for the conditions and understand them, get experience gradually, stay in good shape for more taxing dives and diving in general and you will be fine. Leave one of those out and become a statistic. Unless you get lucky. Based on what I have seen in many places there are plenty of people in the water who are not hurt or killed purely out of dumb luck as opposed to skill and knowledge.

 

[fdog]

You have been to Monastery ,also sometimes referred "mortuary beach" right? Then you understand the rapid drop off, large "pebble sand" and waves can make exit extremely difficult even for advanced divers and those in very good physical shape. Even coining the phrase"monastery crawl" for exit technique.
Although Monterey /Carmel has some factors that make it a little more difficult than some places, but I think that the factor contributing to "high mortality rate" reported is not that high compared to the ratio of successful dives done, and not reported.

Stan, just passing on that Thas probably has more dives at Monastery than most posters in this thread have total dives.

All the best, James

 

[Thalassamania]

Heard of? Are you speaking from experience or from internet?

I have not taken "fundies" it is a bit below my skill level. I am familiar with it from seeing it taught in Florida and extensively reviewing the syllabus I got from JJ when we were corresponding concerning the development of a GUE endorsed course that met the standards and objectives of the AAUS.

Oh yeah? Well, my car is faster than your car.

That's likely true, I drive a 4x4 pickup truck here on the island, but I bet the 1976 280Z I keep on the mainland will give you a run for your money.

But seriously, my study sites were in Lobos and at the mouth of the canyon and over by the creek. I used to dive that area at least six times a week, not counting classes that we taught there, dives on other folks' projects, and dives made for exploration or fun. If I remember correctly ... on that project alone I logged in excess of a thousand dives ... oh, that's an order of magnitude more than your total dives? Well ... I hope you've got a very fast car.

Look, this is not about some chest-beating macho game, it's about what it actually takes for a bookworm science nerd to learn to make it out through a close in ten foot break without getting hurt. Believe me, if the people we taught to do it could learn to, just about anyone can. So why aren't most divers taught to? Why do most instructors wring their hands and say, "it's just too dangerous." It's the same old story ... they may have an insructor card in their pocket, but they simply don't know any better. Their instructor told them it was too dangerous, because they did not know any better either, and their CD told them the same for the same reasons, and their shop owner told them the same for the same reason (and oh, because they'd rather not fund an extra day of class.

IT'S NO BIG DEAL, BUT IT DOES TAKE A LITTLE EXTRA TRAINING.

 

[Peter_C]

In truth I've never had an entry level student that I could not teach, in a day, to handle all but the worst storm surf that Monastery and Carmel River Beach have to offer.

Well since most people who take Fundies locally do it in doubles, can you teach the same thing to them while wearing dubs?

Fundies to me was more about pre-dive planning and underwater skills, not the skills needed to perform what many would consider diving in extreme conditions. It is a lead in to cave diving and tech diving of which neither require entry thru surf.

No one I know around here teaches a class geared towards surfing...errr diving.

Jim, we were out in 14' swells, and choose to head to Carmel for better vis. Find a nice spot tucked out the swells and all is good. Of course it was a long period swell with no wind chop. The next day had smaller swells but was windier and we wound up making it just past Point Pinos before turning around, and did a beautiful job stuffing the bow, Deadliest Catch style. If the swells are 8ft or under it should be a nice day of diving.

 

[Thalassamania]

Well since most people who take Fundies locally do it in doubles, can you teach the same thing to them while wearing dubs?

If I couldn't do in the gear that I'm diving, I'd find something else to do. My work there required that I dive doubles about half the time and I never had any problem.

Fundies to me was more about pre-dive planning and underwater skills, not the skills needed to perform what many would consider diving in extreme conditions. It is a lead in to cave diving and tech diving of which neither require entry thru surf.

You are right about the cave blindness of the Fundies program. I can think of at least three locations where California surf entries and a short swim yield access to "tech" depths.

No one I know around here teaches a class geared towards surfing...errr diving.

I have identified three programs that do, and I was expressing amazement that more do not. Seems like a natural for a truly useful specialty course.

 

[Peter_C]

If I couldn't do in the gear that I'm diving, I'd find something else to do. My work there required that I dive doubles about half the time and I never had any problem.

I wasn't referring to you specifically diving dubs there. I meant every day students, which you were referencing. FWIW one of my friends got rolled in doubles there and couldn't get back up on his own with the minor surf that day. This is a strong guy that is a better athlete than most.

There are plenty of tech divers who go out of Monastery with doubles and a stage so it can be done, but best on the ideal days.

I pick and chose which tanks I am diving by the location I am diving, but some places like Fort Ross it is just as easy to dive doubles opposed to singles since both need to be packed across the beach (Carrying two HP130's at once is harder than double 100's on my back). The beach at Fort Ross is not near as bad as Monastery, but still has a slippery slope coming out of the water. Either way packing 190lbs or so of gear out of the water is a work out whether there are waves or not. The scooter can be an asset or a hindrance depending on the moment.

You are right about the cave blindness of the Fundies program. I can think of at least three locations where California surf entries and a short swim yield access to "tech" depths.

And all of the spots you are thinking about are probably easily accessed by a boat, even Monastery

I have identified three programs that do, and I was expressing amazement that more do not. Seems like a natural for a truly useful specialty course.

Unfortunately I have seen one of the highly experienced "Great Instructors" going out of Monastery doing things I sure wouldn't (No mask on face, no reg in mouth, etc). Specialty courses are just that. Fundies is a specialty course and not directed at big wave surfing either. In many ways learning to read the surf is something that should be learned without scuba gear on, and probably somewhere other than Monastery. No matter how good one thinks they are, the surf can humble even the best. Even pro surfers die...R.I.P.

 

[Adobo]

I have not taken "fundies" it is a bit below my skill level. I am familiar with it from seeing it taught in Florida and extensively reviewing the syllabus I got from JJ when we were corresponding concerning the development of a GUE endorsed course that met the standards and objectives of the AAUS.

In my class, we covered environmental considerations on every single dive. By time I exited my class, I was comfortable planning and executing dives in Pt Lobos and the breakwater - the two sites I would recommend for any new Monterey diver.

I will admit that Fundies is not a class designed to teach surf entry. It will not teach how how to dive Monastery when there is big weather. But part of what you learn is to pay attention to your environment. And hopefully, part of what you realize when you pay attention to the environment you are thinking of diving in, is that some days, it is better to go somewhere else for that day.

That's likely true, I drive a 4x4 pickup truck here on the island, but I bet the 1976 280Z I keep on the mainland will give you a run for your money.

But seriously, my study sites were in Lobos and at the mouth of the canyon and over by the creek. I used to dive that area at least six times a week, not counting classes that we taught there, dives on other folks' projects, and dives made for exploration or fun. If I remember correctly ... on that project alone I logged in excess of a thousand dives ... oh, that's an order of magnitude more than your total dives? Well ... I hope you've got a very fast car.

Yeah, I sometimes throw that line out when someone starts chest thumping.

My car really ain't that fast. But it is nice to know that you can outdo me in diving Monastery in big weather, in dive counts and in fast cars. Maybe you would like to compare sizes of body parts next?

Look, this is not about some chest-beating macho game, it's about what it actually takes for a bookworm science nerd to learn to make it out through a close in ten foot break without getting hurt. Believe me, if the people we taught to do it could learn to, just about anyone can. So why aren't most divers taught to? Why do most instructors wring their hands and say, "it's just too dangerous." It's the same old story ... they may have an insructor card in their pocket, but they simply don't know any better. Their instructor told them it was too dangerous, because they did not know any better either, and their CD told them the same for the same reasons, and their shop owner told them the same for the same reason (and oh, because they'd rather not fund an extra day of class.

IT'S NO BIG DEAL, BUT IT DOES TAKE A LITTLE EXTRA TRAINING.

Shrug. Maybe I need to improve my reading comprehension.

In truth I've never had an entry level student that I could not teach, in a day, to handle all but the worst storm surf that Monastery and Carmel River Beach have to offer.
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I appreciate that you think you are a far better instructor than all those "same old story, hand wringing, just too dangerous" instructors that they have in Monterey. Maybe you really can teach brand new divers to dive Monastery in almost any condition. Sounds boastful to me, but whatever.

For me, the more prudent advice to give someone who is inquiring about diving in Monterey is... "Monastery is a nice dive site but as a new diver, you want to be selective of when you dive Monastery."

 

[gmanstan]

Stan, just passing on that Thas probably has more dives at Monastery than most posters in this thread have total dives.

All the best, James

Then he does understand that realistically most beginning divers would have trouble entering /exiting some of these site no matter how experienced or good the teacher was. Depending on the shoreline & how quickly weather/waters change it can become quite a physical effort.

 

[Thalassamania]

I wasn't referring to you specifically diving dubs there. I meant every day students, which you were referencing. FWIW one of my friends got rolled in doubles there and couldn't get back up on his own with the minor surf that day. This is a strong guy that is a better athlete than most.

That's gonna differ from person to person. Pretty damn stupid, I'd say, to dive a rig in the surf if you can't stand back up.

There are plenty of tech divers who go out of Monastery with doubles and a stage so it can be done, but best on the ideal days.

If they can't stand up, well ... see above.

I pick and chose which tanks I am diving by the location I am diving, but some places like Fort Ross it is just as easy to dive doubles opposed to singles since both need to be packed across the beach (Carrying two HP130's at once is harder than double 100's on my back). The beach at Fort Ross is not near as bad as Monastery, but still has a slippery slope coming out of the water. Either way packing 190lbs or so of gear out of the water is a work out whether there are waves or not. The scooter can be an asset or a hindrance depending on the moment.

I rarely use scooters. I have two Farallon MK-VI from back in the days of my Monterey work

And all of the spots you are thinking about are probably easily accessed by a boat, even Monastery

Boats are likely easier today. For me it was a choice of a beach entry or lugging the Zodiac down from Berkeley, cleaning it up and lugging it back.

Unfortunately I have seen one of the highly experienced "Great Instructors" going out of Monastery doing things I sure wouldn't (No mask on face, no reg in mouth, etc). Specialty courses are just that. Fundies is a specialty course and not directed at big wave surfing either. In many ways learning to read the surf is something that should be learned without scuba gear on, and probably somewhere other than Monastery. No matter how good one thinks they are, the surf can humble even the best. Even pro surfers die...R.I.P.

I usually got through the break with my mask on and my snorkel in my mouth ... never my regulator. I would not expect Fundies to teach surf, I never suggested that it should. It is aimed at solving a different, and every bit as real, suite of problems.

 

[Peter_C]

That's gonna differ from person to person. Pretty damn stupid, I'd say, to dive a rig in the surf if you can't stand back up.

Not that he couldn't stand up, he was turtled and couldn't get back to his stomach between sets. Heck I was setting my tanks down on the rocks at Lobos to wash them and went back to far getting turtled. I asked for a little help. 100lbs is no joke on your back.

Hey this guy could use some surf training and it wasn't even big that day. Not everyone will master the surf. Some are destined to dive off of boats or calm gently sloping beaches.