Is it worth it to blend your own?

[tbone1004]

@CAPTAIN SINBAD you don't give enough information to be able to give an answer.

Need to know at least the following.
What your cost of purchasing He is compared to the cost from the dive shop
Same with O2
How much gas are you using on these dives, need total CF of each pumped per year to give any sort of an ROI
OC or CCR
How irritating is it for you to get to the dive shop for fills in terms of time, distance, and PITA factor

The setup that @Doc Harry has for sale is a good deal and $6k is about as cheap as you can get into a "real" setup. This does not include a booster though, so if you're doing a lot of OC trimix dives, you'll want one, so add another $3k for a baby booster. I was going to say that $10k is about what it takes to set up a full trimix fill station which is bank bottles, baby booster, compressor, and all of the misc stuff that goes with it.
You'll never have a reasonable ROI on it unless you're pumping massive amounts of gas which is where the convenience factor comes in. You also need to look at what the depreciation and residual value will be. In the case of the setup above, it's already fully depreciated, so you aren't going to lose anything when you try to sell it which is ideal.

If you look at my Pelican case booster setup, that is worth at LEAST $7k. I don't want to know what it actually is, but it's an AG30, with a diaphragm compressor, grade D filtration system for the gas, with all the whips and adapters on stainless QD's, and a pair of 2:1 splitters so I can fill 4 bottles at once. It's a mountain of money that will never pay for itself, but the convenience was worth every penny. My compressor is still a work in progress, but will never pay for itself. The value in satisfaction from the engineering the systems was worth the cost of entry, plus the convenience factor for me which is worth a lot of money.
You have to be careful if you are charging people for fills based on your personal risk tolerance for liability. I let people use my stuff, but don't charge for it. This means I don't have to send samples out for testing regularly, don't have to log everything so diligently, etc etc. It's just not worth it to me. My friends can bring beer over, buy dinner, and every once in a while I'll find a few bucks hidden in gear bins for helium cost, but it's not charging them for fills.

All up to you in terms of how much you value all of those things and if it's worth a budgeted cost of $10k to you. It was for me and many others, and isn't for most.

 

[Degenerate]

The cost of rebreather training, cost of the rebreather and the continued cost of rebreather maintenance is quite expensive even when compared to an OC diver owning a compressor. I don't think in 50 plus years of OC diving I've spent the cost of a rebreather and training yet.

A 30-40 min dive at 45-50m here on OC with 21/35 would cost me roughly the equivalent of 200 dollars.
Add in the hassle of having to drive to a shop to get fills (although people will put different values on this, but I put a very high value on my spare time as I have very little of it).
I am definitely getting my own compressor and booster the second we move to a house, I know very well that it is most likely going to be more expensive in the long run, but it will free up quite a bit of my spare time for me and that is worth a lot.
I am absolutely getting a rebreather before we move to a house, it just makes sense to spend 90% less on gas for tech dives.
YMMV.

 

[Jack Hammer]

A mini booster is really only good for small bottles like rebreather bottles. It's a poor choice for mixing or topping off doubles. A bigger booster is overkill for rebreather bottles and awesome for doubles and multiple tanks. There are ones in between that are a reasonable compromise, they can be harder to find and all over in pricing.

 

[AfterDark]

A 30-40 min dive at 45-50m here on OC with 21/35 would cost me roughly the equivalent of 200 dollars.
Add in the hassle of having to drive to a shop to get fills (although people will put different values on this, but I put a very high value on my spare time as I have very little of it).
I am definitely getting my own compressor and booster the second we move to a house, I know very well that it is most likely going to be more expensive in the long run, but it will free up quite a bit of my spare time for me and that is worth a lot.
I am absolutely getting a rebreather before we move to a house, it just makes sense to spend 90% less on gas for tech dives.
YMMV.

The typical dive I do here in RI on 21% cost me under $20.00, that includes lunch.

 

[Degenerate]

The typical dive I do here in RI on 21% cost me under $20.00, that includes lunch.

Yeah, the dives I do on air are free as I get it filled at a fire station on the way to or from work by a mate who works there.
If I was only diving air I would never bother with my own setup, but with trimix dives it's a very different game

 

[Jeremy Williams]

Which Pelican case are you using for the Haskel mini and hoses and are you happy with the setup?

I have the mini in a Pelican 1460. I bolted it through the bottom of the case and added feet underneath so that the bolts wouldn't scratch the floor. I used a long bolt so that I could stand the booster up off the bottom of the case too so that it is easier to work with. The case is good for keeping the unit clean and with right angles on the booster fittings so that they point 'up' instead of 'out' I'm pleased with that. I keep all the hoses in a separate pelican 1450 because I didn't want my high precision digital gauge bumping around inside the 1460 case. Those things are actually pretty fragile. The 1450 is snug but everything fits.

 

[Jeremy Williams]

A mini booster is really only good for small bottles like rebreather bottles. It's a poor choice for mixing or topping off doubles. A bigger booster is overkill for rebreather bottles and awesome for doubles and multiple tanks. There are ones in between that are a reasonable compromise, they can be harder to find and all over in pricing.

It’s actually kinda complex... A big booster moves so much gas that it’s actually hard to fill a single 3L bottle without doing things that are unnatural... like putting a needle valve on the output side of the booster. I’m not a fan of that. The big boosters are the right tool for ‘full size’ tanks and the mini sport booster is really the right tool for for 3L. I use the mini sport for an AL80 or AL40 every once in a while to mix up a bailout. It’s slow but I’m okay with that because I get to carry the bailouts for a long time since they don’t get used.

 

[tbone1004]

the normal way that people slow down big boosters is regulating the inlet pressure down, but that just makes them less efficient and builds up more heat. Better way is to put a "buffer" tank on the system. So have a 2:1 whip and put an AL40 or something on there or fill multiple CCR's at the same time which is what we do. You increase the system volume and you can transfill it over when you switch bottles.

You can also just slow it down by slowing the cycle times down by restricting the drive gas flow rate

 

[100days-a-year]

If I was doing it at home instead of on a boat where it is an absolute necessity it would be harder to justify for that few dives even if buddies helped defray costs by buying fills from me.

I figured 300 to 400 dives a year per person into my cost breakdown.

$10 for compressor/4 year average service life@ 1000+ fills per year
$2k per year for fuel, consumables and 02

So call it $5k a year for 1000+ fills mixed between air and nitrox.

 

[NAM001]

I guess I need to hug my LDS owner next time I am in the store. I get banked 32% fills while I wait.

32 fills are a cake walk but getting into triix is another matter.

I fill at home because of the logistics of finding someone local to fill for me. I only PP fill nitrox at home. the only unusual expense is me buying a Invacare home system that will fill tanks. I have about 1 k in that. alone. and a bauer capitano 6 cuft compressor (bought form a closing shop) I have about 3500 in to date. Its not hard to find O2 bottles. All sorts of peddlers that are selling tanks procured form "other" areas. They are dirt cheap because no one will fill the tanks unless they lease them from the filler. The invacare pumps about 150-200 cuft a day. and in a week i can bank about 1200 cuft of 96% O2 to PP fill with. I make the O2 indoors to control the RH exposure to the concentrator. Concentrators and humidity do not make good bed fellows. For those with argon concerns in the nitrox mix. Using a concentrator does not raise the argon levels much at all. since 32% only uses 15% O2 and topped of with air. I think the worse it gets is about 1.7% argon in 40% PP nitrox9in the final mix. Air is just shy of 1%. When I mix nitrox if I want 32 then i shoot for 32.5. as if I were using pure O2 the error with the 4% Ar cuts the mix back about .4%. I have pics of my system for those that would like to see it. Oh buying an invacare is not expensive. used ones or rebuilt ones are about 8-1200 you can get them on ebay so long as you agree not to breath its O2. concentrators are medical devices that require a perscription. You can get one with out a script if you use it to make O2 for things like torch use or glass blowing , bead making. all non breathing purposes.

One final thought. haveing your own station means you get to the dive site with 3050 in an al80 and not 2750 form a hot fill.