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How have I dismissed the non death consequence? So if the next pandemic doesn’t result in death, only non death consequences, you would still want widespread travel restrictions and lockdowns? Not a denier at all. As I stated all along, travel can be safe, responsible and above all beneficial. Mostly everyone here has glazed over the real life economic and social implications that these restrictions cause. Individual freedoms being trampled. Do you deny that economic and social consequences can be severe?One more time, travel can be safe and responsible. On a personal level, it’s really frustrating to see time and time again, the people that hold power and impose life altering restrictions on the masses, break their own rules. Makes you wonder when I can’t go to church or my moms on Christmas, but the liquor store is open. End of rant.Of the whole population something about 15% have been infected. The ONS reposts in terms of deaths per 100k of population, so for 100k in male working age population 15k will have been infected and 30 die. 30/15000 is 0.2% of infected people dying. There is some bistro maths there but the ball park number is still 10 times higher than your claim. Along with your dismissing the non death consequences I would characterise you as a denier.
Might I ask you guys to get back to facts and not attacks before this thread suffers the same fate as others?
Nope. Your daily new cases are 63.7 per 100k population; where I live it is 34.1. I wonder what you could possibly be doing wrong there? Masks? Social distancing? Hand washing? Are your bars and restaurants open for inside dining?
Post 144 “Possibly...” in reply to the point made about other consequences.How have I dismissed the non death consequence? So if the next pandemic doesn’t result in death, only non death consequences, you would still want widespread travel restrictions and lockdowns? Not a denier at all. As I stated all along, travel can be safe, responsible and above all beneficial. Mostly everyone here has glazed over the real life economic and social implications that these restrictions cause. Individual freedoms being trampled. Do you deny that economic and social consequences can be severe?One more time, travel can be safe and responsible. On a personal level, it’s really frustrating to see time and time again, the people that hold power and impose life altering restrictions on the masses, break their own rules. Makes you wonder when I can’t go to church or my moms on Christmas, but the liquor store is open. End of rant.
@Dan and those traveling for diving believe that dive travel can be done in a responsible manner
This is thread is about responsible travel. You seem focused on legal travel. I'm not sure if that is because you don't care about responsible travel, or think it is the same as legal, or what, but your posts are truly disturbing. You describe a situation that is demonstrably contributory to the mess we are in. If it takes government regulation to mitigate that situation, so be it. I would much prefer people take it upon themselves to be responsible, but apparently it sometimes takes laws and penalties to make that happen. In some places. Like yours.Hey, not bad for our tourist based economy? We have crowding, high mobility, and big testing numbers. Some folks are being tested multiple times per week - its free so why not?
A few errors but the data you presented is close. Your data source - unmentioned - is looking at the 'flash' daily numbers which will grow as final results are delayed by 3-5 days, weekends and holidays further delaying and lumping data. So some of you data is too low.
Your county data? Well so you say - what county was that? Oh, you didn't say, right?
Colorado says EC is 'orange'. Yep restaurants are open - inside and out. Closed - schools and government offices - pretty much everything else open - gyms, hair, docs, dentists, retail, big box. Vail Health (hospital) is full-on with elective surgeries.
Hospitalizations - COVID cases are transferred to the front range, along with most bad stuff - we have almost no pulmonary specialists in EC and the docs say that most V folks will do better at 5kASL rather than 8kASL. EC tracks hospitalizations without regard to where the geographic hospital stay is - only that an EC person is hospitalized somewhere.
Compliance with state health requirements? Very good in public settings. BUT, there are unintended consequences. The capacity restrictions for restaurants have pushed large gatherings to private spaces where compliance is poor to none. Masks - which range from 2xUP to ski buffs - just about everyone in public. A few guarding chins, but most are OK. At private gatherings the masks vanish.
Official Eagle County public health data at
Eagle County COVID-19 - English
https://datastudio.google.com/u/0/reporting/1ddB1kq5h6QjTk77HltHKnho8GHnvk85e/page/plbIB
EC has close to 10k seasonal employees - boys and girls - with an average age of ~22-24. They are a great breading ground. And impossible to control. Maybe the sex thing? They will rent a 2BDR for two and have 6-8 living in the unit. Short term housing is tight, expensive and hard to secure. The sets of folks that the 22 yo group interact with are high, large and diverse and when not in public compliance with regs is little to none. Parties - they have been driven out of the bars by capacity control and into close quartered, no capacity, private sites. Interesting - at the high end - the private chef market is on fire and the groups are big.
Colorado's governor has emergency authority - previous legislation - to implement stricter controls within the state. He has not done so - in fact the controls are becoming less stringent in most counties. It is a political decision for Polis not to do so. Some counties - Pitkin/Aspen - have upped restrictions. Most of Colorado has seen relaxed regulation.
Everything you say about EC is true. "Masks? Social distancing? Hand washing? Are your bars and restaurants open for inside dining?" Yes to all. Lots of masks, no so much distancing, hands drenched in 'sanitizer'. And nothing in the wind that would change the current status.
My point? Moral arguments of the 'hard' group will not change folks behavior that is in compliance with government dictates. The 'hard' group wants the other folks to mirror their behavior. And this, restricted behavior, is achievable only with the heavy had of government - for which the elected politicians seem to have limited and declining interest.
This weekend?
Lots of folks boarding LABs and lots of folks traveling to land based dive destinations. Common thread - their travel is in compliance with government dictates. The moral argument of the 'hard' folks would seem to be quite lost on those boarding planes, trains and automobiles this weekend for discretionary travel/gatherings - domestic and international.
So, what would you suggest that Governor Polis - who would like to be re-elected - do to meet your standards, and in so doing insure the safety of the state's citizens? Perhaps you might share your state's efforts at V control?