There have been so many threads and deleted posts about covid and travel that I thought I would start a thread devoted to safe(er) travel. And yes, I have a Florida trip and 2 Liveaboards planned so far for this year.
Is it possible to travel responsibly (during a pandemic)?
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International travel for fun? Not while thousands of people are dying daily and you might introduce new and exciting variants to fresh growth opportunities.
Of course everyone is fed up. Give it another six months or a miraculous improvement in numbers. Try not to help kill any extra people.
Think about the contrast between the consumerist threads about refunds and the claims that it economically essential to visit some far off place.
Of course everyone is fed up. Give it another six months or a miraculous improvement in numbers. Try not to help kill any extra people.
Think about the contrast between the consumerist threads about refunds and the claims that it economically essential to visit some far off place.
Good question. The foundational issue seems to be "how much increased risk can we justify in the name of pleasure?" "Risk" meaning not just the risk to ourselves, but the risk to everyone else. And then, does this particular trip fall above or below that threshold?
I have made two weekend trips since the pandemic began, one in the summer and one in the fall, both to visit my brother- and sister-in-law in northern California. Both times I traveled by car and stayed in their guest house, and socialized with them outdoors. I feel that those trips involved only a slight increased risk to myself, my husband, and those relatives (which they accepted), and a negligible increased risk to strangers, and I felt that it was worth it.
However, my husband wanted to do this trip again next month, and I said no. Infection rates have climbed significantly, and it will be too cold to spend hours together outside. Even though I've been vaccinated (I'm in the Moderna trial and lucked out getting the active vaccine), nobody else in the group has, and none of us is able to isolate at home for two weeks before or after.
I don't think flying right now is a good idea. I know the filtration systems on airplanes are pretty decent, and masks work better than we once believed, but you're still talking about a huge number of people in a very small space for what tends to be a pretty long time. I'm diligent about wearing a mask and minimizing my exposure and still managed to catch a cold recently. Anyone who hasn't caught COVID yet has to share most of the credit with sheer dumb luck, because we have yet to find a guaranteed prevention strategy.
I'm not persuaded by the arguments that foreign countries need our tourism dollars. Anyone concerned can still send money without visiting.
However, I am sympathetic to those who are feeling burned out on quarantine. I'm really lucky to live someplace where I can dive year-round without significant risk of exposure to the virus. I'm not sure how well I'd hold on to my sanity otherwise. We've all been asked to give up many of the things that make life worth living, and some have had to give up more than others. The end dates we've been promised have turned out to be overly optimistic, and it's starting to look like it might be another year before we achieve herd immunity through vaccination. I wish we could all band together and hunker down and get through this as quickly as possible, but I also realize how unfair it is to expect everyone to sacrifice nearly everything that brings them pleasure, indefinitely, especially when the risk to those specific individuals (and the benefits they'd gain through their sacrifice) may be relatively small.
I have made two weekend trips since the pandemic began, one in the summer and one in the fall, both to visit my brother- and sister-in-law in northern California. Both times I traveled by car and stayed in their guest house, and socialized with them outdoors. I feel that those trips involved only a slight increased risk to myself, my husband, and those relatives (which they accepted), and a negligible increased risk to strangers, and I felt that it was worth it.
However, my husband wanted to do this trip again next month, and I said no. Infection rates have climbed significantly, and it will be too cold to spend hours together outside. Even though I've been vaccinated (I'm in the Moderna trial and lucked out getting the active vaccine), nobody else in the group has, and none of us is able to isolate at home for two weeks before or after.
I don't think flying right now is a good idea. I know the filtration systems on airplanes are pretty decent, and masks work better than we once believed, but you're still talking about a huge number of people in a very small space for what tends to be a pretty long time. I'm diligent about wearing a mask and minimizing my exposure and still managed to catch a cold recently. Anyone who hasn't caught COVID yet has to share most of the credit with sheer dumb luck, because we have yet to find a guaranteed prevention strategy.
I'm not persuaded by the arguments that foreign countries need our tourism dollars. Anyone concerned can still send money without visiting.
However, I am sympathetic to those who are feeling burned out on quarantine. I'm really lucky to live someplace where I can dive year-round without significant risk of exposure to the virus. I'm not sure how well I'd hold on to my sanity otherwise. We've all been asked to give up many of the things that make life worth living, and some have had to give up more than others. The end dates we've been promised have turned out to be overly optimistic, and it's starting to look like it might be another year before we achieve herd immunity through vaccination. I wish we could all band together and hunker down and get through this as quickly as possible, but I also realize how unfair it is to expect everyone to sacrifice nearly everything that brings them pleasure, indefinitely, especially when the risk to those specific individuals (and the benefits they'd gain through their sacrifice) may be relatively small.
Regardless of how responsible you are there remain throngs of stupid people running around, the best way to limit exposure to stupid is to stay home, in my case I’m only around one and it’s not my wife and no one else lives here...but me...HEY!
The short answer is No.
The longer answer involves one's personal desires vs the accumulated/layered risk to self and others; where is the balance point?
Clearly, lots of folks disagree with my No. They apparently feel immortal, and appear not to care about others. Their balance point is WAY off where mine is, and i'm frankly both disappointed in them and just a bit angry....they are NOT helping the situation, only themselves. That is selfish, but it is the Tragedy of the Commons, in a way.
I'm old enough that every year left to travel and dive is seriously precious to me. Yet, I've been sitting at home for over a year now, having canceled numerous trips, and with more to be cancelled this year, I suspect.
My wife and I will not be going on dive trips again until we are both vaccinated, and even then we will pick and choose very carefully where we go. Bonaire is likely, for example; Egypt and Indonesia are not. Maybe in a couple more years; maybe I'll still be diving then.
The longer answer involves one's personal desires vs the accumulated/layered risk to self and others; where is the balance point?
Clearly, lots of folks disagree with my No. They apparently feel immortal, and appear not to care about others. Their balance point is WAY off where mine is, and i'm frankly both disappointed in them and just a bit angry....they are NOT helping the situation, only themselves. That is selfish, but it is the Tragedy of the Commons, in a way.
I'm old enough that every year left to travel and dive is seriously precious to me. Yet, I've been sitting at home for over a year now, having canceled numerous trips, and with more to be cancelled this year, I suspect.
My wife and I will not be going on dive trips again until we are both vaccinated, and even then we will pick and choose very carefully where we go. Bonaire is likely, for example; Egypt and Indonesia are not. Maybe in a couple more years; maybe I'll still be diving then.
wnissen
Contributor
To New Zealand or China, sure. I could even make an argument that in the poorest countries of the world, lacking a safety net, that the risk is worth it.
But for most countries, no. Given the current infection and death rate most places it's not possible. Even an N95, worn perfectly, is only 95% effective, and so even making every attempt to minimize contact there's still a chance that you will transmit a new strain or bring one back.
But for most countries, no. Given the current infection and death rate most places it's not possible. Even an N95, worn perfectly, is only 95% effective, and so even making every attempt to minimize contact there's still a chance that you will transmit a new strain or bring one back.
To give you an idea how well PPE (personal protective equipment works) our office has two dentists, 4 hygienists and 4 assistants. We require face shields, glasses, gowns, head covering, and we wear two masks...a KN95 against our face and a level 3 over that. We have UV and hepa air filtration units in each room. We have hand sanitizer and lysol available in every room as well as our other products. Each room is cleaned after each patient. We take everyone's temp staff and patients. I see an average of 40-60 people (including hygiene) a day doing oral aerosal procedures approx 8-10" from each patients mouth. To this date not one staff member has tested possible. However clearly doing that is not possible outside of the office. I have flown several times. I wear a N95, bring hand sanitizer and large alcohol wipes on the plane as carry on. At this point I have had the first Moderna Vaccine and am getting the second one 02/04. Three weeks after that I will consider traveling again. I will still wear a N95, bring hand sanitizer as well as alcohol wipes. We are considering a trip to the keys late in the summer....I think the long and short answer to your question is "No"
drrich2
Contributor
Yes, particularly if you can avoid air travel. If you can drive to southeastern FL, for example, wear a mask and socially distance to the extent practical on a dive boat with like-minded fellow divers, perhaps at reduced capacity, I have no problem with that. As more of us get vaccinated, so much the better. Not that terribly different from going to Wal-mart.
Air travel (and the airports) is an added concern (risk). Even there...I'm not making a blanket moral judgment against people doing so. Granted, I wouldn't want to change cancellations and getting stuck very far from home, but a flight to the Caribbean region is acceptable to me. Testing pre & post trip reduce (not eliminate) risk.
The question of whether recreation-seeking tourists should go to a given destination is made by their government. The question of whether the economic benefits and needs weigh favorably against pandemic-related risks is likewise their government's.
I haven't flown or dove since Jan. 2020 due to the pandemic, and didn't visit my out-of-state elderly parents last year. But if you're getting off a plane from a dive trip to Cozumel, I'm not gonna yell 'Hey, Typhoid Mary! How was your trip?!?!?'
Air travel (and the airports) is an added concern (risk). Even there...I'm not making a blanket moral judgment against people doing so. Granted, I wouldn't want to change cancellations and getting stuck very far from home, but a flight to the Caribbean region is acceptable to me. Testing pre & post trip reduce (not eliminate) risk.
The question of whether recreation-seeking tourists should go to a given destination is made by their government. The question of whether the economic benefits and needs weigh favorably against pandemic-related risks is likewise their government's.
I haven't flown or dove since Jan. 2020 due to the pandemic, and didn't visit my out-of-state elderly parents last year. But if you're getting off a plane from a dive trip to Cozumel, I'm not gonna yell 'Hey, Typhoid Mary! How was your trip?!?!?'
OP
uncfnp
Solo Diver
Like gqllc007, over this past year I have discovered you can limit transmission. My urgent care office evaluates and tests covid suspects and patients. But unlike him we struggled finding ppe. And yet with the simple precautions we were able to implement, most of our staff have remained covid free. So I know precautions do work. The problem is that few follow even simple precautions. Oh, by now most make a token effort, mask on chin or some such. But just sit outside your local hardware or grocery store and you will see why covid has run rampant across the states.
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