Kay Dee
Contributor
Mike, with all due respect, if you can't see where I am coming from, then I can't explain it. Sorry about that.
Is it OK to turn off O2 in Rebreather Training?
- Thread starter doctormike
- Start date
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Mike, with all due respect, if you can't see where I am coming from, then I can't explain it. Sorry about that.
OP
Really? You can't explain it? Too bad. That's the whole point of this forum. We discuss things, and sometimes we change our minds based on what someone else tells us. I'm always open to that. You have been diving CCR longer than me, maybe you will change my mind.
I have no idea "where you are coming from", because so far all you have explained is that this method is "asinine and BS". If you have thought this through, I would think that you could be a bit more specific.
Kay Dee
Contributor
Mike, I ain't got the time to waste at present, just sitting at my keyboard at present waiting for an on-line auction to take place, hence why me quick return posts. Besides, as far as I was aware, posting on here was not a prerequisite for explaining everything in minute detail. Reread some of my previous posts if you want to see 'where I am coming from', or not, as the case may be. No offense intended.
Just let it go Mike. Some people just want to be difficult. Trust me, 
Kay Dee
Contributor
Just let it go Mike. Some people just want to be difficult. Trust me,
Hey, what the f*** do you know about me? Do I know you, or do you know me, personally? (I don't think so.) My name is Kevin Denlay, what's yours?
I ain't trying to be difficult, but if you can't (or cant be bothered to) see it, I can't explain it (in text).
I have a video of a friend testing this on my couch. Friendly environment, no class setting, no payment involved, I wasn’t even his rebreather instructor.
Breathing a purposely mis-packed scrubber, in less than two minutes it looked like he was suffering from a heart attack. No way to self rescue.
Now, this isn’t empirical by any means, and probably not even accurately duplicated. Who’s to say breakthru is possible, but not so bad that it would show up in the first 5 minutes...
I trust my scrubber. I trust my packing abilities. I’m doing a pre-breathe to test everything else more than “activating the sorb” or testing for breakthru.
And guys, do this on land. As I said in another thread...
It’s really common to pre-breath in 4’ of water while you’re hooking up bailout. Passing out at a picnic table isn’t fatal. I have seen two friends pass out in 4’ of water. If not for a stranger noticing what was going on, both of my friends would likely be dead. (I wasn’t their instructor either).
I've definitely done a couch dive with no scrubber. It effing SUCKED big time after about 10 minutes. The headache alone lasted 6 hours, and I still didn't feel completely right a day later. Did one with no O2 to see PO2 decay as well, from 0.70 O2 down to almost hypoxic. On the surface it goes pretty damn quickly.
I don't buy into the "activate the scrubber" thing, and 5 minutes is probably not long enough for most people to detect breakthrough, but CCR's are complex, make sure all the complicated bits are working before finding out that one that isn't working is gonna kill you.
OP
No prerequisites, no obligations, explain what you like, respond, don't respond, bid on your auction, whatever. But you posted in a public forum, so people are going to respond to your posts.
I read your two posts at the beginning of this thread, and I still don't understand your objection. If you have an answer but you don't have time right now to respond, then just respond later when the auction is over and you are free, rather than posting that you aren't ever going to answer.
You did have time to post a seven paragraph description of an open circuit cave training incident that is pretty tenuously related to the topic of this thread. If anything, it seems to support the idea that telling students ahead of time what you are going to "surprise" them with is a bad idea, right? He had a real emergency, and you guys were slow to respond because he hadn't told you that was going to be one of the tests? Better for the students to just respond as if everything is real, right? To be honest, I don't really understand the connection between that story and the OP.
Kay Dee
Contributor
Yeah, pre this evening when I had nothing better to do than wasting time sitting at a keyboard. And tenuously related is your - and no doubt others opinion - which in this instance, I couldn't care less for, with all due respect.
Like I said if you - or others - don't get it I can't explain it. No further comment on this subject by me. No offense meant, but..................................understood?
Oh, and thanks for saving me from bidding way more that I wanted to pay at the auction; I lost. So THANKS, seriously, as the price went way too high, as I write this!
Given it is now midnight where I am, it is way past my bedtime, so............................goodnight.
Oh, and what I had hope to buy was this (below) lovely 19th century bowl and spoon salvaged by Mike Hatcher from the wreck of the Tek Sing (South China Sea), a wreck which I have dived - post Hatcher
- several times myself.
Kay Dee
Contributor
NEXT DAY EDIT; I went back and moved one sentence in my - prebriefed drills commentary - post (#111, last post page 11) that has it seems confused some folks, so the "turning off (a students) o2 is asinine" sentence can be now read / seen as a stand alone, NOT as an integral part of my example / comment on doing unbriefed drills, which was the overall intent of my post there; as it seems some people have misread that post (i. e. cannot see the separation of the two distinct incidents / 'practices' I bring up there) because, possibly, I did not have that bracketed sentence as the last stand alone sentence in my post. Hopefully the movement of that sentence now makes it somewhat, and possibly only somewhat to some, clearer. If not, well, like I said, I can't explain it in writing then.
While "slow is fast" I dont understand this concept that prebriefed failures are less educational that surprises. Or that students get a pass for responding lackadaisically to either. Train like you fight.
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