Is forgiveness Possible?

[daniel f aleman]

The one thing, and I mean the one thing, that I will not allow in my life is someone else's self-destruction.

 

[H2Andy]

Not. The one who did the wrong can be forgiven even if they do not ask for forgiveness. Why? Because if the other one never admits their wrong there would be no forgiveness.

good point, Green, but that's still not forgiveness, unless you mean self-forgiveness

for example, I killed your dog. i feel like crap. i have done wrong. i come to
you, and i say, "i killed your dog. i am sorry."

but you are so angry, you don't want to hear from me, you tell me to go piss off.

ok... well... i am truly repentant, i am sorry, i know i did wrong, but you won't
forgive me...

i can accept what has happened, forgive myself, and go on

but i still think "true" forgiveness takes two people: one who did wrong, and
one who was wronged.

The one thing, and I mean the one thing, that I will not allow in my life is someone else's self-destruction.

but ultimately, everybody is responsible for their own lives.

you simply don't have the power to control another person's behavior. if
they want to destroy themselves, there's nothing you can do to stop them.

now, there's LOTS you can do to HELP them not destory themselves, but
ultimately, it's their call. you really don't have the power to prevent it.

 

[H2Andy]

ok Green... now you have me diagaming stuff

three ways "forgiveness" can happen:

1. mutual participation. culprit asks victim for forgiveness and is forgiven

2. victim moves on: culprit does not ask for forgiveness, but victim decides
to move past the harm and not let it have power over their life

3. culprit moves on: culprit asks for forgiveness, but victim won't grant it.
culprit decides to move past the harm and not let it have power over their life.

number 1 is true forgivenes.

number 3 is self-forgiveness.

number 2 IS NOT forgiveness. in order for there to be forgivness, there
has to be true repetance for the wrong done. in other words, the person
who committed the harm must realize they have done wrong and must
wish to make ammends.

note that in both 1 and 3, someone has said "man, i messed up. i was
wrong. please forgive me"

that's the key to forgiveness, in my book

 

[jepuskar]

I'll forgive mostly anyone as long as they buy me stuff.

 

[Green_Manelishi]

ok Green... now you have me diagaming stuff

three ways "forgiveness" can happen:

1. mutual participation. culprit asks victim for forgiveness and is forgiven

2. victim moves on: culprit does not ask for forgiveness, but victim decides
to move past the harm and not let it have power over their life

3. culprit moves on: culprit asks for forgiveness, but victim won't grant it.
culprit decides to move past the harm and not let it have power over their life.

number 1 is true forgivenes.

number 3 is self-forgiveness.

number 2 IS NOT forgiveness. in order for there to be forgivness, there
has to be true repetance for the wrong done. in other words, the person
who committed the harm must realize they have done wrong and must
wish to make ammends.

note that in both 1 and 3, someone has said "man, i messed up. i was
wrong. please forgive me"

that's the key to forgiveness, in my book

What if culprit dies? Victim can still forgive.

 

[H2Andy]

What if culprit dies? Victim can still forgive.

that's scenario 2

i still don't think that's forgiveness. again, i think forgiveness requires an act
of contrition, and you can't forgive someone who doesn't ask for it

you can be WILLING to forgive them, but that's not the same as forigving

for example, the person who hurt me the most in this life, who did the most
damage to me, there came a time when i was ready to forgive that person.

but the person died without ever acknowledging that they had done any wrong,
to me or those i loved.

did i forgive that person?

well, i guess you're right.... if you're willing to forgive them, in a way you have
forgiven them. but what is missing is the aknowledgement of wrong doing
on that person's part. i think that's very important for true forgiveness.

 

[Green_Manelishi]

that's scenario 2

i still don't think that's forgiveness. again, i think forgiveness requires an act
of contrition, and you can't forgive someone who doesn't ask for it

you can be WILLING to forgive them, but that's not the same as forigving

for example, the person who hurt me the most in this life, who did the most
damage to me, there came a time when i was ready to forgive that person.

but the person died without ever acknowledging that they had done any wrong,
to me or those i loved.

did i forgive that person?

well, i guess you're right.... if you're willing to forgive them, in a way you have
forgiven them. but what is missing is the aknowledgement of wrong doing
on that person's part. i think that's very important for true forgiveness.

If you forgive them it matters not whether they admit to the wrong doing. You forgave them. End of statement. Don't try to complicate it.

 

[aquababe66]

If you love someone and truly care about them, forgiveness is absolutely possible. The amount of time needed depends on what is being forgiven. But if the apology comes from the heart, it can happen. Talk to her and tell her how you feel. Nothing can be resolved without honest communication.

 

[jepuskar]

BS...apologies only come after you have been caught. You dont get caught....no need to apologize.

 

[Snowbear]

If you forgive them it matters not whether they admit to the wrong doing.

That is so true.... 'Culprit' never admits wrongdoing or apologizes or asks for forgiveness. 'Victim' sincerely and completely forgives both the 'culprit' and the wrongdoing anyway.

Now THAT is true forgiveness.... since without remorse or contrition or even admitting any wrongdoing on the 'culprit's' part, it can be the most difficult kind of forgiveness for the 'victim' to grant.