Is Egypt Getting an Unfair Reputation When It Comes to Liveaboards?

[Sascha314]

Personally I would say.
Its not unfair, its realistic.

Travel there and you can realize the mental attitude. Its a lot about showing and saying, little effective work. So yes I do not trust it, I do not think its just a statistical fluctuation, and there are potential causes like this attitude in combination with the long covid issue (money losses, crew losses, not enough customers,) and maybe some more extreme weather situations (and the need to not disappoint the customer).

My life is worth more than this, so no egypt ship for me. Unfair ... no, very personal judgement yeah true.

 

[LeggoDiveyDivey]

The number of accidents is alarming to say the least (not to mention the people getting eaten by sharks).
I think an interesting angle would be to see who were the operators of those liveaboards and to see a pattern between operators and incidences. Other factors would be the age of the boat and hull type.

Culturally I think Egypt suffers from being more accepting and accommodating towards tourists in general. As for diving, I think its dependent on who your dive guides are, but there have been too many incidents across Egypt, particularly on liveaboards in popular areas like Dahab that its reflective of a cultural and systemic issue.

In my own planning I had looked at Golden Dolphins (surprised to see it listed here), Extra Divers, Aggressor (not surprised seeing it listed in the accident list) and Blue Planet as potential operators to go with. Would I still go diving in Egypt? Maybe, the news is giving me pause, but I have had good experiences there and the price is an obvious factor.

 

[Jay_Remi]

Unfortunately the reputation is well deserved. I know many instructors that live in Egypt and would never join a liveabord because they know how bad safety protocols are. I assume there are few higher end vessels that are safer but if you pick one randomly there are good chances they are going to be bad in terms of safety.

Yes, this is precisely my point indeed.

 

[Jay_Remi]

I appreciate this probably not a comprehensive list, but it would appear that the number of incidents has soared since 2022. I can't help but see a correlation with Egypt's economic woes, which have got worse in the last 3-4 years. When companies can't make ends meet or their profits are down, they might decide to cut corners, particularly if their sector is largely "self-regulated".

I've been scuba diving in the Egyptian Red Sea for decades and have never witnessed a health and safety inspection by the authorities. All they seem to want is the passport details of the passengers ...

That was my experience when I dived with Emperor. I dived with two of their LOBs.
Never again.

 

[Jay_Remi]

So, how do you choose a good operator? I thought the Red Sea Aggressor I was a good choice for my 2 weeks in 2016, look what happened in 2019. Returning safely from a trip or two does not make the operator a safe one, I can attest to that. At least 18 accidents since 2019 with 16 fatalities. I'm not at all sure my list is complete or fully accurate. Aside from the SOLAS certified Royal Evolution, is there any objective information that one liveaboard is safer than another? LiveAboard.com currently lists 64 Egyptian liveaboards.

I'd say, look at their safety standards, maintenance, feedback from customers, etc. It's not foolproof obviously but it's a start.

 

[Jay_Remi]

Please list them.

Blue Planet Liveaboards, which operates four boats: Blue, Blue Pearl, Blue Storm, and Blue Seas. Very good vessels with excellent service, top-notch food, and thoughtful safety features—each diver was even provided with an ENOS device. The overall experience on Blue was truly outstanding.

 

[scubadada]

In Egypt, I'll always assume they are going to do 3 dives per day and any extra is a bonus, not a guarantee.

I was somewhat surprised to read about the number of dives offered by Red Sea liveaboards.

I did back to back weeks on the Red Sea Aggressor I back in 2016. The first week was on the southern route and we did 22 dives in 5 1/2 days. This included 4 night dives. The second week was BDE and we did 22 dives in 5 1/2 days. This included 1 night dive, night dives were not allowed at Little Brother, Big Brother, or Daedalus. This trip was before the restrictions at Brothers, we were able to overnight and do 4 dives off each island.

I would find 3 dives per day disappointing. The Red Sea Aggressor IV is said to do 20-23 dives per trip:

 

[Parlem]

I was somewhat surprised to read about the number of dives offered by Red Sea liveaboards.

I did back to back weeks on the Red Sea Aggressor I back in 2016. The first week was on the southern route and we did 22 dives in 5 1/2 days. This included 4 night dives. The second week was BDE and we did 22 dives in 5 1/2 days. This included 1 night dive, night dives were not allowed at Little Brother, Big Brother, or Daedalus. This trip was before the restrictions at Brothers, we were able to overnight and do 4 dives off each island.

I would find 3 dives per day disappointing. The Red Sea Aggressor IV is said to do 20-23 dives per trip:
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Aggressor boats have a different policy regarding number of dives per day. Because Aggressor is a US brand and it appeals to US divers, they often squeeze in a fourth dive whenever possible. A fully-booked Red Sea Aggressor boat will typically have three guides on board and only one of them will guide the night dive, giving the other two a break. In my experience, European divers are somewhat less concerned about the actual number of dives over a week's trip. Of course, other may have had a different experience.

Another factor to consider is time of year. In winter, the sun sets pretty early in the Egyptian Red Sea, which can affect dive scheduling.

 

[Germie]

I am from Europe and find it important to know how many dives are done during a trip. This is because I want to calculate if the price is fair or not.
I don't mind if there is no guide for me, I am like most European divers used to dive without a guide. All divers have a cert that allows you to dive without a guide.

I have been on a day boat to Elphinstone and they did 8 divers per guide. It was a real mess. But also other groups had a mess.
People deciding to go to 55m and ignoring everything, then drain their tanks fast and the guide expects then that the people with over 120 bars left still abort the half dive of only 35 minutes and then the divecenter expect that you pay for a dive. But you did not do a dive.
This is something I have never seen in other countries.

For me as an experienced diver, solodiver, instructor, etc it is important that when I do recreational dives where I pay for as a customer that it are real dives and that I am not a babysitter, nor that the dives are shortened due to the behaviour of others. If there is a real problem, I will help like I did on Elphinstone when 4 out of the 8 in our group went to 55m on a single tank and the guide was not able to get them up alone. I decided to help him, had enough gas, know what to do with decompression, so I helped. But I did not like then that my dive was also finished with still 120 bars left and that they expected me to pay for that dive.

 

[iliketopetsharks]

Once again i can recommend MV Legends. No babysitting and no limits