Is dive certification really necessary?

[James79]

I'm still confused as to how it would improve standards to have instructors certify one another's students. If anything, I imagine I'd feel more pressure to certify someone sent to me by a friend than if I'd trained that person myself.

In my line of work, there are 2 schools of though on evaluations. One is a straight up pass/fail evaluation, and the other is a willing to train to success (but failure is still possible). Even if you coach a friends student to fix a shortcoming during the eval, for one the problem gets solved, for another you will probably inform the friend of the shortcoming there student had (allowing them to improve their instruction). If you do a straight eval (no coaching to success), you would still be sharing any shortcomings with their instructor.

Respectfully,

James

 

[TMHeimer]

I wonder if over 10% of divers coming out of OW courses are actually capable of organizing their gear, putting it together, setting their computer and doing a shore dive, all on their own, a year after certification? I sure see a lot of divers in warm water that need all the help they can get from the DM.

Of course impossible to determine. Obviously there is probably a large % of those you see diving in the tropics who dive once or twice a year on dive vacations and don't dive much or at all locally (so I read). Probably you are right in that many of those couldn't do what you mention. A would assume also that close to 100% of those who dive locally and regularly could what you say a year after certification (or whenever they dive).

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Sonoma County, CA now requires a permit to teach any classes off a county beach.
Besides teaching classes for money there are no rules about or against recreational diving up here in my part of the state, you can dive any way you want with complete freedom, except for parking fees, but I have an annual pass.

I taught myself all about perfect buoyancy when I started diving without a bc. You have to have perfect buoyancy otherwise it won’t work. There was nobody to teach me, I had to learn on my own.

 

[boulderjohn]

I wonder if over 10% of divers coming out of OW courses are actually capable of organizing their gear, putting it together, setting their computer and doing a shore dive, all on their own, a year after certification? I sure see a lot of divers in warm water that need all the help they can get from the DM.

I think I might be able to help you.

I don't believe I have seen a truly needy diver in more than a decade. What I learned long ago was that certain operations cater to beginning divers, and others cater to more advanced divers. With operations that have a mix, they usually carefully and quietly sort groups so that more advanced divers dive together and the beginners dive together. If you plan ahead by inquiring ahead of time, you can find out which operations cater to the better divers and go with them. If you are diving with a large operation that sorts divers into groups by ability, if you are careful, you can get into the more advanced groups.

 

[_john]

My buoyancy was all messed up when I started diving a wetsuit. All of my dives had been warm water and my first wetsuit dive was a 7mm and I was overweighted. I don't think I got decent at diving a wetsuit until about the 4th or 5th dive with it. Based on my first dive with the wetsuit I wouldn't have passed me. And by then I already had a dozen under my belt.

 

[Celt]

My buoyancy was all messed up when I started diving a wetsuit. All of my dives had been warm water and my first wetsuit dive was a 7mm and I was overweighted. I don't think I got decent at diving a wetsuit until about the 4th or 5th dive with it. Based on my first dive with the wetsuit I wouldn't have passed me. And by then I already had a dozen under my belt.

But you learnt as you went along, I think that’s normal and you did what suits you. And you can learn to use every other piece of gear needed when the time comes at your own time and pace. That has to be better than rushing through a weekend course.

 

[TuckerIdaho]

This thread is fascinating. I feel like we need a surveymonkey survey to understand people's training/where/quality of the training.

 

[AfterDark]

Diving is like other activates in that we have a wide range of people and personality types that participate. Some people are "hardcore" they "live to dive" others run from there to the "vacation" diver. Defined as probably resort trained, dives a few times and lets the DM guide them and control the dive. They aren't interested in diving as something to learn more about; the history, the evolution new research. As someone posted they want to see the fish and corals and have a unique experience they wouldn't do back home. These divers when they try to dive outside the resort setting can and do sometimes run into issues.

IMO something needs to be done for this type of diver.

IMO the lack of somewhat rigorous swimming qualifications pre-classes is partly to blame, it may help weed out those with unknown medical issues. I remember a least one person an older guy (at 16 everyone looked older) that couldn't complete the watercraft tests. He was asked to come back after he thought he could pass. I know this is counter to the more divers the better for industry/sport attitude but someone not getting a heart attack at 20FSW is a better goal, IMO. I'm not talking boot camp or Navy SEAL training just enough swimming to get the heart going and some deep breathing.

Maybe resort divers don't need to be in good physical shape if they stick to resort type diving, but other divers should be and swimming is a good indicator of physical condition and is relative to the activity.

 

[TuckerIdaho]

but other divers should be and swimming is a good indicator of physical condition and is relative to the activity.

I have to run 22 miles on Saturday morning, wanna come?

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

My buoyancy was all messed up when I started diving a wetsuit. All of my dives had been warm water and my first wetsuit dive was a 7mm and I was overweighted. I don't think I got decent at diving a wetsuit until about the 4th or 5th dive with it. Based on my first dive with the wetsuit I wouldn't have passed me. And by then I already had a dozen under my belt.

This is where a little skin diving might have helped with that suit. I would have employed the additive technique rather than the subtractive technique in regards to weighting.
Before you scuba dive in it you water test it first just with mask snorkel fins and a weightbelt. Start light and add weight little by little.
When you use it for scuba you will have an idea of where you need to be. People don’t need nearly the weight they think they need.
Ultimately you should be able to sit at 15’ at the end of the dive with a near empty tank and no air in your BC and control your stop with breathing alone. Whatever combination of weight it takes to achieve this goal is the exact proper amount of weight.