Is dive certification really necessary?

[Celt]

You need a cert if you think you need one. I’ve never thought I needed one so I don’t have one.

 

[Altamira]

There are likely enough divers on this board, me included, that can attest to the fact that you certainly can be a self taught, competent, conscientious, and safety oriented diver. However, to be self taught and survive requires a very strong interest and dedication to read, understand, and diligently practice what has been written about diving, coupled with a high level of maturity, common sense, and awareness of our abilities and the dangers. I am equally certain that had I approached dive training, a continuous process, in the same half assed manner that I see many certified divers operate today, I probably would not have survived.

 

[Centrals]

Same as driving!
I have to show my diving card every time I signed up for a dive anywhere.
Some operator might not require one but I had never came across one.

 

[Searcaigh]

Same for driving, you can buy a car, register and insure it, no one asks to see your license specifically if you have other forms of identification

Depends in which country you are!

I've just been chatting to another SB member earlier today and he asked me if I ever used any of my rescue skills and it did make me think that although I wasn't really aware of it I actually do use them more than I thought I did!

At least a few times a year I'll be on a boat and someone needs help because they are overweighted and fail to inflate their BCD and advice is necessary to help that diver.

Now I'm not suggesting that they were badly trained but unless you're diving with some frequency you will forget stuff if you're not experienced enough.

Watching people put their gear together is a good indication of what to expect how they may perform in the water.

 

[Hank49]

There are likely enough divers on this board, me included, that can attest to the fact that you certainly can be a self taught, competent, conscientious, and safety oriented diver. However, to be self taught and survive requires a very strong interest and dedication to read, understand, and diligently practice what has been written about diving, coupled with a high level of maturity, common sense, and awareness of our abilities and the dangers. I am equally certain that had I approached dive training, a continuous process, in the same half assed manner that I see many certified divers operate today, I probably would not have survived.

And where the new diver is from and with what water experience is a factor. Someone who grew up on the sea, surfing, bodysurfing, free dive spearing will have more comfort in the water (in general) than one from the midwest having swam in pools or lakes.
My son in law from Hawaii went diving with us in the Philippines. My good buddy owns a resort there. We told Sam, "go up no faster than your small bubbles, don't hold your breath and don't run out of air".
His second dive he had it pretty wired. 20 meter dive. My buddy who owns the resort was never certified. But he's taught more than a few people how to dive.
As you said, self motivation is also a big factor.

 

[JamesBon92007]

I think the short answer is "yes." Sure, there is no law that says you have to be certified, and some people are capable of learning on their own, and you can have a friend who dives teach you and take you on your ocean dives etc, and if you or your friend has his own compressor or gets your tank filled for you, and you could end up with just as much knowledge and initial experience as someone who took an OW class, but you wouldn't be able to get on a dive boat, rent a tank, or go get your own tank filled. I have my own compressor and lots of extra gear but I tell my friends and family that they need to take a course, no matter how much time I spend teaching them. A lot of that has to do with me--I don't want to be responsible if something goes wrong. One thing I learned a long time ago is that I am not good at determining who will be a good diver and who won't. I had a friend who freaked out just snorkeling in 10 feet of calm, clear water but turned out to be a good diver. I would have bet against him. I've had the same thing happen, only vice versa. Also, maybe you don't need to be certified in California but I think there are some countries that legally require certification, which may be why so many new divers here on SB refer to their certification card as a license.

 

[Centrals]

Watching people put their gear together is a good indication of what to expect how they may perform in the water.

I was watching this guy setting his own weight belt and could not believe what I saw.
Lo and behold he was assigned to be my buddy! I just declined.

 

[ToneNQ]

The difference is that’s it’s illegal to drive without a license but there is no legal precedent that says you can not dive without a certification................snip.................

I'm not across legal precedence in Australia to comment on that, it may or may not be illegal to dive without a certification. It is absolutely illegal (in Queensland) for a company to take you diving without you being certified, or allow you to dive where the dive site is beyond your certification. This is clear as day in the code of practice for recreational diving in this state. Go diving on the GBR with a dive charter, without a certification, the charter is breaking the law.

My health insurance only covers diving issues if I'm certified and diving within my certification. This is written very clearly in the product disclosure statement. Not the scuba police, but its a compelling argument to not get gas blends I shouldn't have.

Depends in which country you are!....snip.......

Country, state, and probably more local if you live in a place where laws can be passed at county or shire level. Hence I would suggest that saying there is no legal precedence is a bit broad.

Go diving by yourself and need rescue, I would not want to be the diver than cannot show a certification. If the police couldn't make something stick they'd probably just saddle you with the cost of your rescue.

 

[Zef]

The company that gave them a gas fill or rented them a cylinder without them being certified would likely get sued.

I think this is often stated but never cited hyperbole. Perhaps a shop can be sued but they have no control what one does with an airfill and I think their lawyer would push for summary judgement to have the case dismissed...and I believe they would be granted that judgement. There is no duty of care in the sale of an air fill, and if there is no duty of care there cannot be a breach of duty....without those elements there is no foundation for negligence, and if there is no foundation for negligence, there difinitivley is no foundation for gross negligence.

-Z

 

[rob.mwpropane]

Just like the tittle asks, is it?
I’m really starting to wonder.

Case and point.
I went diving with a guy several years ago that supposedly was certified and I ended up rescuing the him because of his gross incompetence. He was allegedly OW certified by his brother in law with a private class. Upon questioning him after the incident it was apparent the he knew next to nothing about basic scuba.

More recently, I met up with another friend of mine down in Monterey on a Sunday to do a congratulatory fun dive with him on the last day of his ocean dive portion of his OW class.
There were several things that either he forgot or never learned on his SSI class, like 15’ safety stop, water pressure and expanding gas laws, and a few other things.

This got me thinking, there really is no law that says you must be certified to go scuba diving. There are no scuba police, there are on scubaboard, but not out in the real world. It’s not like driving cars, flying planes, or cutting hair professionally.
The only thing that a person wouldn’t be able to do is get on a charter boat or dive at a resort, or some other commercial venue that requires proof of certification.

An individual could buy a full set of gear and in most cases get air fills, or buy their own compressor and be free to do as much private boat diving and or shore diving as they desire.
It is possible to read enough information in books like The New Science of Skin and Scuba Diving, plus other printed material and video’s online to glean all the information necessary to understand all the critical protocols to dive safely.
What is the difference between taking the course online and reading the info in a book?

The pool portion, what if a person was to do all the exercises and drills as outlined in the book as opposed to a class setting? The discipline needed to do the drills and not lying to yourself would be the thing. What if someone was exceptionally motivated and had the highest personal integrity to do it correctly, would it be as good or better than a class?
What about mentors? Not instructors, but mentors - peers that buddy with you and take you out to learn the ropes of real dives.

How many people have I seen that barely get by doing skills and this is in a class setting?
How many people have I seen getting answers wrong on the test but the instructor talks them past it and it gets marked as reviewed and they move on?
How many people have I seen pass a basic OW class that shouldn’t have?
Plenty in my opinion, too many.
Some were clearly not mentally and physically competent enough to be set free into the wild and expected to survive a basic OW dive on their own with a buddy, maybe on vacation with a divemaster holding their hand the whole time, but is this really the definition of an OW diver? I have a different description of what a “diver” is. To answer the question, no I have never seen anyone NOT pass.
So what is the point?

It seems to me that anyone determined enough to learn how to dive on their own, and is informed enough to know how to educate themselves enough to be able to do this activity safely would almost be in a better position.

What is lacking is an independent certifying agency that does tests only upon successful completion of the skills. They would not be affiliated with any dive shop or dive school. You learn how to dive either through a school or you can home school yourself. When you feel you can pass you go to the certifying agency and take both the written and in-water skills test for a fee. Upon successful completion they issue you a certification independent of any dive center or dive business/brand etc.

Think in terms of contractors licenses, drivers licenses, or a test only smog shop. These are “test only” type agencies.
In this case a “certification” would only be needed in cases for commercial passage.

I want to discuss this as a thought experiment.

Agreed. I like your approach. I think we all know there's a "problem" with the way things are done. When I was done OW / AOW I was not a better diver, nor prepared, so what's the point? (Besides money)...

I would have much preferred a self study and then test at some point, but how do you tell the difference between vacation divers from more serious hands on divers (obviously we're all probably the latter spending time on a Saturday morning to talk about diving?!?) Most people that dive will never do so without a guide or a DM holding their hand.

If you did a self study / self practice, how would you get rentals to try? You need pool or practice time, how would that look? Honest question.

My solution...make people sit through an hour or more of The Great Dive Podcast. If you're intrigued, self study for you my man! If you're bored af, certification class for the masses it is!!

I really came here to do the same, but Stuart beat me to it...

P.S. - I drive my wife crazy talking about diving...so glad you're all here so I can "dive" into my hobby (pun intended). She and I will never talk about the intricacies of OW cert vs at home self study... so thanks!