Is AOW allowable in Doubles?

[String]

Its certainly not a PADI standard breach.

Provided the student was used to diving with the twinset and could do all the shut down drills etc i'd have no problem at all teaching someone in them.
What i wouldn't do however is allow someone with a new shiny twinset to do the course as then you'd be teaching the use of that as opposed to the actual course content.

In fact, especially for the deep dive portion i'd like it as realistic as possible - in other words i'd WANT the students to have a redundant air source such as a pony or twinset.

 

[RiverRat]

I was told by one shop that P.A.D.I. forbids the instructor (not sure about students) from teaching in doubles for AOW classes. Does anyone know if that's a common rule for most agencies or if it's a shop by shop, instructor by instructor issue?

Man.....and you wonder why divers get fed up with LDS' and just learn to service their own gear and buy it online. No BS. I'm not an instructor but if I was, and had a student come to me in doubles, and could dive them well, I'd have no problem giving them an AOW card. In fact if their skills were above average (or advanced as compared to the typical AOW student) a decent instructor could teach a kickass AOW class to you so you could... A: get the stupid card for the boat requirement, and B: get some decent skills down for your money. I know there are some instructors in Connecticut doing just that, teaching some AOW and buoyancy classes like no other that give you the most bang for your $ and are very flexible with gear requirements. You just need to find the right instructor for you at your level and either get the stupid card at this point or just get beyond it. Unfortunately for PADI I needed the AOW to get to Rescue and DM. I was sold on AOW as "OW part 2" and needed to get some dives in anyway as I didn't know anyone when I started out. And the plastic got me on the wrecks and deep dives.

 

[amascuba]

I wear my doubles in OW and AOW classes working as a divemaster (For the OW portion of the class. In the pool I wear singles). If a student showed up in doubles for an AOW class my shop owner would probably have me work with the student personally and show them valve drills, setup, etc. I would have no problem with a student in doubles. It's certainly not a PADI requirement that forbids students, divemasters, instructors from wearing doubles.

 

[Steve R]

Its certainly not a PADI standard breach.

You're right about that. This is either a case of them being really stupid (stating Padi wouldn't allow it), or they're simply lying to their customer for who knows what reason. Either of which is unacceptable.

Provided the student was used to diving with the twinset and could do all the shut down drills etc i'd have no problem at all teaching someone in them.

In fact believing that the LDS in question even if they allowed doubles, probably wouldn't have a clue about such shut-down procedures. To simply own and dive a twin-set requires no such knowledge and in fact I know many twin-tank divers, some of who instruct, and they don't have a clue whats going on with them. They simply bought them because it was the thing to do at the time, and the shop didn't care because they were making a truck-load of cash and to hell with the knowledge end of it.

But again this is not required for Padi standards, single or twin-set. With Padi you cannot force a student to meet a skill requirement that is not required by Padi standards. You couldn't hold a cert back for not reaching your valves or knowing which reg was attached to which post or even why it is so. It's simply not a required skill.

This is the biggest fault of Padi when playing by their rule book as they tell you you should do. I can imagine some instructors do as you would since it only makes sense, but making sense is not Padi methodology. In fact they don't really care at all as I have found from direct personal experience. Not to single out Padi by any means. It's a common theme with most agencies I find. But now I am getting off topic.

 

[Thalassamania]

I think that most agencies "encourage" instructors and students to be similarly equipped.

 

[Sawllkwa]

I think that most agencies "encourage" instructors and students to be similarly equipped.

Actually our shop encouraged some instructors to use shop brand drysuits. They did this by letting them use a shop brand (O'Neill or Mobbys) for free, and then gave em a chance to buy at cost if they wanted.

 

[Steve R]

I think that most agencies "encourage" instructors and students to be similarly equipped.

lol. agreed. That's why I liked getting to them first

'Similarly' though has a whole range of possibilities depending on whom is making that judgment.

 

[Warren_L]

Any sort of "teaching in doubles" policy, WRT PADI is a shop thing. I stopped teaching shop based AOW a couple of years ago as they had such a policy and it just made me plain nervous how much could potentially go wrong with how things were set up. Now I will only do them on my own by request - which gives me total control of my gear config as well as that of my students. This also usually means one or two students at a time, but that's just fine with me.

 

[String]

In fact believing that the LDS in question even if they allowed doubles, probably wouldn't have a clue about such shut-down procedures. To simply own and dive a twin-set requires no such knowledge and in fact I know many twin-tank divers, some of who instruct, and they don't have a clue whats going on with them.

Same here and these people are dangerous. Got the false feeling of security a twinset has without actually understanding enough to be able to use the thing to improve safety. I see lots of people with twins who use them as "one big tank" as they cant do a valve drill.

With Padi you cannot force a student to meet a skill requirement that is not required by Padi standards. You couldn't hold a cert back for not reaching your valves or knowing which reg was attached to which post or even why it is so. It's simply not a required skill.

True however you can refuse to teach them in that kit (tell them to go elsewhere). Its the only way out, if you accept them for training you have to pass them if they meet the standards. The way around that is you dont have to accept them on a course. Granted if working for a shop who want the money i suspect an instructor wont be able to say no.

Not to single out Padi by any means. It's a common theme with most agencies I find. But now I am getting off topic.

Agreed it is. Certainly in the ones i teach for.

 

[String]

I think that most agencies "encourage" instructors and students to be similarly equipped.

There are other clauses though such as using the proper equipment for a dive. To me a deep dive that would be twins or a redundant air source.

Set an example as an instructor - if you believe that a piece of kit is essential to the safe conduct of the dive then wear it and when the students asks, explain your thought process and methods thoroughly.

BSAC contradicts itself nicely. States students should always have a single tank (entry level course). Then says instructors should have similar kit. Then next page says for open water use instructors are strongly encourage to use a redundant air source, twins or a pony. Then also says their alternate air source should be fed off a redundant cylinder.

Ive seen other contradictions in other agencies manuals too. At the end of the day common sense is needed. Instructors should take what they believe is needed for the dive and explain this to the students. Also AOW is not an entry level course, its time to start getting students used to other pieces of kit they may come across or need to use.