Is a Pony Bottle too complicated for a beginner?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

I am new to scuba diving with only a couple dives under my belt. I am a little OCD and tend to pay attention to my gauge more than enjoying the dive as I am always worried about my pressure. I have a 13cf pony bottle. Would being a new diver and having the pony tank connected to my main tank for the piece of mind confuse me and be tougher for me starting out? When I started paramotoring, they recommended not flying with a reserve because it is more likely to accidentally deploy and cause more problems.
Since you are no longer a completely new diver, I'd say the pony can't hurt and only has to help once to be incredibly useful. Best practice is larger than a 13, however, up to even a 40. For me, a 19 is the smallest worth bothering with. Sling it. Keep it turned on, so there are no delays if needed. If you are not using a necklaced secondary, then do that with your pony reg. Ignore all the suggestions to "just" use sidemount or back-mount doubles....that is overkill for your diving, has its own issues, costs more, and is awkward to handle. You are looking for a redundant air supply to get you to the surface if your primary should fail. That's it. You don't need super solutions to diving modes you are not yet interested in dealing with like extra long bottom times or deco dives. You are hungry for a snack; have a snack. Ignore the suggestions that a full steak dinner will be cheaper in the long run or better for you. It is not dinner time, bro.
 
No one is saying to go tech. Learning how to calculate your gas is open water skills 101; why folks in this thread are against this is a little concerning. Moreover, diving doubles is not Tech diving.

However, IMHO, "pony's" are considered "Tech" because now one has allowed themself to pick up a single staged tank at a shop that might not have been analyzed correctly or analyzed at all. Let's consider that the open water diver does not know about analyzing their gas or diving different gas mixtures. This mistake could lead to picking up a tank that has the possibility of deadly consequences more so than having one set of doubles or a single 80 filled, especially at a busy shop that also does tech and rec diving.

Nevertheless, all I am advocating here in a New Diver thread is for those who ask essential questions, as OP has, to continue asking these questions and urge on the side of human factors and safety. If that makes me uncool, so be it.
The point of an OW diver being given a limit of 60’ is to keep diving safe and simple while mastering the basics. A typical newbie diver will learn to monitor depth, air and time without fear of going into accidental deco (not impossible, but not likely). I think you are the first person who I have seen that would consider a pony as tech, but not doubles.

Not every diver needs to know their SAC. It’s handy, but not essential. I have never calculated mine (in 1980 the stuff to do it accurately was not worth the trouble). I would hate for a reader in this forum to think that they can’t have an enjoyable experience in the water unless they master calculating their SAC and can lift twin 80s (or could afford them).
 
Sadly, I am not following any of your logic with this post; we agree to disagree. With that said, this statement did catch my eye: "should not be included in gas planning" Humor me, why shouldn't you calculate all of your gas usable in planning your dives?


Also, full disclaimer, please let us know if you are a dive professional or instructor before you answer this question on a new diver thread.
Let’s see, diving since 1980, so I suppose I have nothing to offer.

Kind of scary that you don’t have a clear understanding of redundancy. I have a BCD to control my buoyancy. I use it to go up and down. If it fails, I can add air to my drysuit. In an emergency, I could drop lead, again not my first choice, but an option. I don’t want to do that because it is harder to control how floaty I am, but in a pinch, it will work. That is redundancy. I don’t plan on ending a dive with 300 psi because if my buddy needs it, I don’t have enough to share and if I am delayed, I don’t have enough for myself. I have two cutting tools in case I drop or can’t reach one. I shouldn’t need the second blade, but just in case….

A pony is extra air that I or a buddy MIGHT need, but I will never plan on using it unless things have gone sideways. That is redundancy.
 
This also begs the question. When did back-mounted doubles become advanced diving?
I would reverse your question: when did back-mounted single become a common choice? When i started, in 1975, there were ONLY double tanks. No one could even think to dive here in the Mediterranean with a single tank...
The max size for a tank was 10 liters, and the standard pressure was just 150 or 170 bar, so a single tank was way too small for doing any decent dive...
So all beginners did start with double tanks. Only 10 years later, around 1985, single tanks (15 liters at 200 bars) became common; I did buy my first single tank in 1989, when using doubles started to become "uncommon".
 
How about this, since @CT-Rich , @grf88, @tursiops, and @Marie13 have all attacked my advice, opinions, and thoughts on this thread—why not you come up to the Midwest [Mod edit] come over and dive with me and show me why all of your solutions are superior. Let's put our money where our mouth is, I'd be happy to dive with all of you and see your point of view. :coffee:
 
Couple of thoughts (1) your SAC rate will improve significantly as you gain experience i.e., hours in the water, (2) pony bottles are just for emergencies so they will not fix your high SAC rate you are facing now, (3) management of stage/pony etc increases significantly your complexity underwater and may affect in a negative way your SAC, (4) pony bottles are a pain for travel.

Given all this, I would consider sidemounting or using larger tanks if you can while you gain experience and improve your SAC rate but would avoid a pony bottle.

I am new to scuba diving with only a couple dives under my belt. I am a little OCD and tend to pay attention to my gauge more than enjoying the dive as I am always worried about my pressure. I have a 13cf pony bottle. Would being a new diver and having the pony tank connected to my main tank for the piece of mind confuse me and be tougher for me starting out? When I started paramotoring, they recommended not flying with a reserve because it is more likely to accidentally deploy and cause more problems.
 
How about this, since @CT-Rich , @grf88, @tursiops, and @Marie13 have all attacked my advice, opinions, and thoughts on this thread—why not you come up to the Midwest (Marie you are already here and dropped into two of my classes unannounced and with zero awareness at Haigh Quarry) come over and dive with me and show me why all of your solutions are superior. Let's put our money where our mouth is, I'd be happy to dive with all of you and see your point of view. :coffee:
Hey you forgot about me! What a I? Chopped liver? :stirpot::yeahbaby::p
 
Dogma divers can be tedious, not in their steadfast beliefs but more in their inability to believe that there are many many ways to dive.

meticulous planing is great as are doubles, which on the planet I live are not easier to carry, but they alone don’t solve every issue like dealing with a blown lp seat (happened to me) and let’s just say this is deep into the dive, first tank low (if not low because of the plan why?) and second tank in a freeflow does the plan help?

I carry a pony sometimes but mostly to test regulators, if all goes well my main tank will have extra air at the end of the dive but if something fails no big deal, a new diver who wants a pony for the psychological peace of mind harms no one, why care?
 
How about this, since @CT-Rich , @grf88, @tursiops, and @Marie13 have all attacked my advice, opinions, and thoughts on this thread—why not you come up to the Midwest (Marie you are already here and dropped into two of my classes unannounced and with zero awareness at Haigh Quarry) come over and dive with me and show me why all of your solutions are superior. Let's put our money where our mouth is, I'd be happy to dive with all of you and see your point of view. :coffee:
This is a *discussion* forum. That several people disagree is not surprising. You did call into question MY Credentials, even though I am only one of the half dozen people arguing against you POV. I am not a huge fan of quarry diving and I am not here to best anyone as a diver. I do have a degree in education and a few dives under my belt. I do realize that those who are interested in diving as a sport may get spooked away by making it seem too cost prohibitive or complex. Basic recreational diving is fun and easy. A deep understanding of the underlying physics and physiology are nice (I got the old school 12 week training). Expecting a novice diver to understand, much less calculate their SAC is unnecessary and intimidating. Would be divers that think math skills are essential to diving may get put off before they even learn.

The same could be said of gear, twinset tanks are heavy and expensive. Your average new diver may not be physically up to handling that much weight on land or in the water. A pony is not a stage bottle, the OP should learn the difference, apparently the difference hasn’t been entirely clear to some others in the forum :eyebrow:.

If the OP wants to extend bottom time, a larger tank is the simplest solution. If they want a redundant air source in an emergency, a pony is a solution (as opposed to sharing air off a buddy’s safe second stage). These two solutions are not mutually exclusive, they could do both or neither. They could go to doubles, either together or as independent doubles. Independent doubles would require more skills training and more expense, which he is probably not ready for.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

Back
Top Bottom