Is a Pony Bottle too complicated for a beginner?

[chillyinCanada]

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Yup. That was the topic that had been beaten to death to which I was referring.

Some equipment/style of diving (i.e., technical, rebreather, cave, wreck, deep, drift, etc., etc.) is going to beyond some people. Some people don't belong in the water as they are a fatality waiting to happen at the first mishap. Fortunately, properly maintained equipment is exceedingly rare.

 

[Gandalf-the-Diver]

Yup. That was the topic that had been beaten to death to which I was referring.

Some equipment/style of diving (i.e., technical, rebreather, cave, wreck, deep, drift, etc., etc.) is going to beyond some people. Some people don't belong in the water as they are a fatality waiting to happen at the first mishap. Fortunately, properly maintained equipment is exceedingly rare.

I was not comfortable in current until dive 35ish ... now ... drift?, yes pls.

 

[Bob DBF]

Anyone who sucked down their primary & relies on their pony is absolutely doing things wrong & should fix whatever reason they're running out of air, and resort to safer dives.

The pony is there for when your out of air regardless of the reason, if it's stupidity it should be corrected, but the pony is for when you run out of air.

...why do none of the training agencies teach a pony as standard equipment in the OW course?

The agencies teach NDL buddy diving, and if done properly there is no need for a pony.

Perhaps a minor nuance here, but my observation was not that training agencies "discourage" pony bottles (they may--I really don't know) but that none of them consider a pony to be part of the baseline equipment for new divers.

In the 1980 PADI OW manual, the pony was discussed, as was the alternate second, as safety equipment for divers. The class was taught with a single second stage as was the norm at that time. I picked up an alternate second within the following year. I don't know if they still cover the alternative now.

 

[Gandalf-the-Diver]

The pony is there for when your out of air regardless of the reason, if it's stupidity it should be corrected, but the pony is for when you run out of air.



The agencies teach NDL buddy diving, and if done properly there is no need for a pony.



In the 1980 PADI OW manual, the pony was discussed, as was the alternate second, as safety equipment for divers. The class was taught with a single second stage as was the norm at that time. I picked up an alternate second within the following year. I don't know if they still cover the alternative now.

PADI OW e-learning covers pony bottles ... for about 15 seconds

 

[Bob DBF]

PADI OW e-learning covers pony bottles ... for about 15 seconds

Thanks. Was it only as a redundant source, or for use instead of an alternate second. Or perhaps so fast you don't recall.

 

[Gandalf-the-Diver]

Thanks. Was it only as a redundant source, or for use instead of an alternate second. Or perhaps so fast you don't recall.

It was described as redundant.

 

[Julius SCHMIDT]

Ο πρωταρχικός λόγος για ένα πόνυ είναι επειδή έχετε απορροφήσει το πρωτεύον

The primary reason for a pony is because you have sucked down your primary

επειδή δεν δώσατε προσοχή στο spg σας, το οποίο είναι το μόνο σημαντικό πράγμα που πρέπει πραγματικά να κάνετε ως δύτης, οπότε το συμπέρασμά μου είναι ότι εάν δεν βουτήξετε στη ζώνη συγκέντρωσης που απαιτείται για μια τόσο απλή αλλά πολύ σημαντική ζωή διατήρηση της διαδικασίας ως παρακολούθηση spg, σταματήστε την κατάδυση μέχρι να αποφασίσετε

Το πόνυ δεν θα σώσει από την ανικανότητα, ούτε θα φοράει ένα ικανό ή ασφαλές ή σόλο δύτη

εάν δεν μπορείτε να διαχειριστείτε τον κύριο αέρα σας

because you were not paying attention to your spg, which is the only important thing you really need to do as a diver, so my conclusion is that if you do not dive in the concentration zone that is required for such a simple but very important life sustaining procedure as spg monitoring, stop diving until you decide to.

The pony will not save from incompetence nor will wearing one a competent or safe or solo diver make

if you can't manage your primary air


Επομένως, εξασκηθείτε στη διαχείριση των πρωταρχικών σας δυτών και δεν θα υπάρχει λόγος να διαχειριστείτε ένα πόνι

So practice managing your primary air divers and there will be no reason to manage a pony



Είναι όλα ελληνικά για μένα!

It's all Greek to me!

 

[stepfen]

Ο πρωταρχικός λόγος για ένα πόνυ είναι επειδή έχετε απορροφήσει το πρωτεύον




επειδή δεν δώσατε προσοχή στο spg σας, το οποίο είναι το μόνο σημαντικό πράγμα που πρέπει πραγματικά να κάνετε ως δύτης, οπότε το συμπέρασμά μου είναι ότι εάν δεν βουτήξετε στη ζώνη συγκέντρωσης που απαιτείται για μια τόσο απλή αλλά πολύ σημαντική ζωή διατήρηση της διαδικασίας ως παρακολούθηση spg, σταματήστε την κατάδυση μέχρι να αποφασίσετε

Το πόνυ δεν θα σώσει από την ανικανότητα, ούτε θα φοράει ένα ικανό ή ασφαλές ή σόλο δύτη

εάν δεν μπορείτε να διαχειριστείτε τον κύριο αέρα σας

because you were not paying attention to your spg, which is the only important thing you really need to do as a diver, so my conclusion is that if you do not dive in the concentration zone that is required for such a simple but very important life sustaining procedure as spg monitoring, stop diving until you decide to.

The pony will not save from incompetence nor will wearing one a competent or safe or solo diver make

if you can't manage your primary air


Επομένως, εξασκηθείτε στη διαχείριση των πρωταρχικών σας δυτών και δεν θα υπάρχει λόγος να διαχειριστείτε ένα πόνι

So practice managing your primary air divers and there will be no reason to manage a pony



Είναι όλα ελληνικά για μένα!

It's all Greek to me!

No matter how many times one looks at the SPG, a catastrophic failure in the reg system can be a serious problem. Add to this a bit of depth, dive times close or past to NDL, and/or solo diving and you get a nice set of reasons to carry a pony just in case.
My 2c as always.

Είναι όλα αγγλικά για μένα!

 

[SlugLife]

Ο πρωταρχικός λόγος για ένα πόνυ είναι επειδή έχετε απορροφήσει το πρωτεύον




επειδή δεν δώσατε προσοχή στο spg σας, το οποίο είναι το μόνο σημαντικό πράγμα που πρέπει πραγματικά να κάνετε ως δύτης, οπότε το συμπέρασμά μου είναι ότι εάν δεν βουτήξετε στη ζώνη συγκέντρωσης που απαιτείται για μια τόσο απλή αλλά πολύ σημαντική ζωή διατήρηση της διαδικασίας ως παρακολούθηση spg, σταματήστε την κατάδυση μέχρι να αποφασίσετε

Το πόνυ δεν θα σώσει από την ανικανότητα, ούτε θα φοράει ένα ικανό ή ασφαλές ή σόλο δύτη

εάν δεν μπορείτε να διαχειριστείτε τον κύριο αέρα σας

because you were not paying attention to your spg, which is the only important thing you really need to do as a diver, so my conclusion is that if you do not dive in the concentration zone that is required for such a simple but very important life sustaining procedure as spg monitoring, stop diving until you decide to.

The pony will not save from incompetence nor will wearing one a competent or safe or solo diver make

if you can't manage your primary air


Επομένως, εξασκηθείτε στη διαχείριση των πρωταρχικών σας δυτών και δεν θα υπάρχει λόγος να διαχειριστείτε ένα πόνι

So practice managing your primary air divers and there will be no reason to manage a pony



Είναι όλα ελληνικά για μένα!

It's all Greek to me!

That's a major misrepresentation of why people use pony-bottles. The pony-bottle doesn't make me safe, most of my dives are without one.

I'd ditch the pony-bottle if the only reason for wearing it was running out of air prematurely. (For that scenario, I'd fix my air-checking routine, and potentially get an EPG or integrated air which alarms at low psi). I'd be shocked if I ran out of air prematurely, and personally have never started a safety stop below 500psi. I'm always paying attention to dive-time & after 1000psi paying close attention. I agree that nobody should be using a pony bottle as a dive-extender or spg-monitoring substitute, but otherwise the above is strawman argument. "No reason?" You're just ignoring all of the other reasons listed in this thread numerous times.

The reason I wear a pony as a solo-diver is about 95% equipment failure, 2% hand off to other divers, 1.9% other emergencies, and 0.1% running out of air unexpectedly. To me, it's like having relatively inexpensive insurance. The few hundred dollars I invested is tiny compared to the prospect of dying or experiencing severe decompression sickness in the event that **** goes sideways unexpectedly.