Is a Pony Bottle too complicated for a beginner?

[Gandalf-the-Diver]

So in other words you have already been doing a little solo diving now and then, before having taken the Solo course. Not something I would advise new divers to do.

I don't mean to give you a hard time--you're apparently doing fine, and closing in on 200 dives and diving several times a week you are not really a newbie, despite what you said. Again, the OP really does seem to be a new diver. If I understood the OP, this thread is about whether a pony bottle is a good solution for a new diver to that feeling of insecurity we all felt as new divers. Even if the OP decides to carry a pony, I hope others who find this thread in the future take the full debate into account.

The thing is, I was a brand new diver with a pony. I had one on my side from the 1st dive I did as an OW diver. I even did a change over drill. to my pony, on my very 1st dive using it. I also did that change over with a flooded mask, just for shits and giggles. (I have since been told the drill I did, is straight out of PADI Tech 40) I put my primary stage 2 on a necklace, so I would be able to find it if the drill went south. A new diver CAN carry a pony and practice using it. And just to complicate my new diver status, I was also a new diver using a drysuit. I will always say yes, a new diver can carry a pony.
I also had over 85 dives before I started doing my little solo trips to the surface.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I will always say yes, a new diver can carry a pony.

If a diver is capable of receiving a second stage from another diver, that diver is capable of using a pony.

 

[KenGordon]

I'm not going to search through years of BSAC reports to validate your claim. So I will reject it unless I stumble across it.

You ought to read them anyway. Learn from the mistakes of others etc. Much more informative than the ramblings of Internet forum users.

 

[KenGordon]

If a diver is capable of receiving a second stage from another diver, that diver is capable of using a pony.

Lol.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

You ought to read them anyway. Learn from the mistakes of others etc. Much more informative than the ramblings of Internet forum users.

Oh definitely worth reading, and drawing some sort of conclusions to apply to my own diving and for teaching students.

Not all users ramble however. If they can cite specific cases (research, reports, etc.), then there's learning to be had.

 

[Edward3c]

I'm not going to search through years of BSAC reports to validate your claim. So I will reject it unless I stumble across it. Looking at the 2019 report (page 67), there is an incident where a diver made the mistake of breathing from his pony first, but he lived.

Whilst the majority of those who’ve initially used their pony’s reg, thinking it was their main one, realise their mistake. There have been fatalities. These were not always novice divers, but ones with years of experience who hadn’t taken the time to retrain their subconscious they were carrying a pony. Some were solo diving i.e. agreed to meet up with their buddy on the shot line to maintain the impression of buddy diving.

 

[KenGordon]

These are cases of starting with the wrong reg. I’d need to startup my laptop or old iPad to find the fatalities in older reports. It is a sampling of a large number of divers doing a large number of dives. It indicates that people do make a mistake, as unbelievable as that may seem, due to the extra complications of more kit. The experience of users such as MikeWD might be ok but at scale people make mistakes. You want inexperienced people making those mistakes and not having the mental resilience, due to not being well used to the environment, to deal with the problem?

12/248 Nov 11
13/005 oct 12
14/191 Aug 2014
16/055 March 16
17/251 September 17
17/009 oct 16
19/130 June 2019

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

These are cases of starting with the wrong reg. I’d need to startup my laptop or old iPad to find the fatalities in older reports. It is a sampling of a large number of divers doing a large number of dives. It indicates that people do make a mistake, as unbelievable as that may seem, due to the extra complications of more kit. The experience of users such as MikeWD might be ok but at scale people make mistakes. You want inexperienced people making those mistakes and not having the mental resilience, due to not being well used to the environment, to deal with the problem?

12/248 Nov 11
13/005 oct 12
14/191 Aug 2014
16/055 March 16
17/251 September 17
17/009 oct 16
19/130 June 2019

Hey, I'm one part of the group (though unrecorded) of people who was breathing off the wrong reg. I was inexperienced, on the backwall of Molokini "group diving" (so on my own which is why I knew to bring a pony with me to Maui).

How many of those are fatalities? The 19/130 June 2019 isn't, as I did read that one. I will go back and read those as you have gotten more specific.

We all make a myriad of mistakes, typically more often early in our diving, but from time to time, we do make them (though I sure need to cut that out now that I'll be learning to dive closed circuit).

 

[KenGordon]

Hey, I'm one part of the group (though unrecorded) of people who was breathing off the wrong reg. I was inexperienced, on the backwall of Molokini "group diving" (so on my own which is why I knew to bring a pony with me to Maui).

How many of those are fatalities? The 19/130 June 2019 isn't, as I did read that one. I will go back and read those as you have gotten more specific.

We all make a myriad of mistakes, typically more often early in our diving, but from time to time, we do make them (though I sure need to cut that out now that I'll be learning to dive closed circuit).

These are not the fatalities, these are the obvious pony related mistakes from the reports currently on the BSAC web site. I have older ones on other machines. Edward also remembers there being fatalities. Do you really need a fatality to believe that it is a terrible idea for a novice diver to have a complicated bit of extra kit? A bunch of rapid ascents and particularly the failure to switch to back gas.

New divers are easily flustered by unexpected events. How someone deals with weird stuff is a good measure of comfort and ability. Someone with hundreds of dives will manage better than someone with five or ten. Someone dived up will probably manage better than someone coming back after a layoff. Adding unnecessary complications when less able is a mistake.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Do you really need a fatality to believe that it is a terrible idea for a novice diver to have a complicated bit of extra kit? A bunch of rapid ascents and particularly the failure to switch to back gas.

I need a bit more to say it is a bad idea, given that myself, @MikeWD, and probably thousands more have used them without killing ourselves. I just don't find it all that complicated, and my initial scuba training sucked. I do however handle stress well. Maybe that's the difference?

I do not consider a pony bottle an "unnecessary complication" or "complicated", but a valuable safety device. For those that think it is complicated, maybe diving isn't for them. A rebreather is complicated. But I don't think anything OC is complicated, not even sidemount.