Is a Pony Bottle too complicated for a beginner?

[KenGordon]

@KenGordon I am going to have to disagree with you on this. A person's mindset plays a big part in this, especially as a new diver. For example, last September I got my OW. My 1st dive as a certified diver, I slung a 13cu pony on my left side. My buddy for that dive, a DM in training, watched me as I flooded, then cleared my mask while switching to my pony for my ascent from 50'.
Packing a pony as a new diver is not hard if you are prepared to use it. I prefer to sling my pony, as opposed to mount to my main, as all control of the bottle is right in front of me and if something happens, I move my hand to the pony and the stage 2 is the first thing that my hand grabs.. Originally, I slung the pony on my left, but now sling diagonally across my chest. This keeps weighting equal between both sides and if I ever had to hand off my pony to a diver in need, my balance would not be out. I lovingly carried that 13cu for my 1st 70ish dives, after which, I purchased a 30cu tank, which I also carry, diagonally across my chest.
I have been diving for less than a year. I did not do my AOW until I had 40 logged dives. AS of this morning, I am now at 142 dives, all but 6 of those have been carrying a pony. I also did my OW in a drysuit, just to add more complexity, but it is needed in the waters I dive.
A beginner can do it, but you have to have the mindset. When I purchased all the gear I needed to scuba dive, I used the gear list from a Solo course to help me decide what to buy. I still practice switch over drills, and my pony has a LP whip for launching my DSMB, and as a spare source for my drysuit.
(I have still not brought out my camera, as I feel it is more important to nail buoyancy and finning techniques 1st, a camera however, is not lifesaving gear)

There is a saying, “you don’t know what you don’t know”. A new diver really has very little idea about a lot of things. The idea that a person could die by failing to get off an empty pony onto a full backgas cylinder is probably one of those.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

There is a saying, “you don’t know what you don’t know”. A new diver really has very little idea about a lot of things. The idea that a person could die by failing to get off an empty pony onto a full backgas cylinder is probably one of those.

In open water, students do get their valves shut down momentarily in the pool to get the feel of a cylinder being drained empty. As they are also taught to retrieve regs/share gas, switching to another reg isn't going to be a big deal, I fail to see your scenario as likely unless they had a really, really, REALLY bad open water class (which I certainly did). Early on, I had one of those and I actually did a rookie mistake of having similar regs on my pony and my back primary. I was confused at first as my SPG read full tank, but I stopped getting gas. Just switched regs and continued on. After that, I made sure my 2nd stages wouldn't be mixed up.

 

[KenGordon]

In open water, students do get their valves shut down momentarily in the pool to get the feel of a cylinder being drained empty. As they are also taught to retrieve regs/share gas, switching to another reg isn't going to be a big deal, I fail to see your scenario as likely unless they had a really, really, REALLY bad open water class (which I certainly did). Early on, I had one of those and I actually did a rookie mistake of having similar regs on my pony and my back primary. I was confused at first as my SPG read full tank, but I stopped getting gas. Just switched regs and continued on. After that, I made sure my 2nd stages wouldn't be mixed up.

If you read the BSAC incident reports and you will find one or two fatalities caused this way.

Also, if there are rookies and rookie mistakes…

 

[Gandalf-the-Diver]

There is a saying, “you don’t know what you don’t know”. A new diver really has very little idea about a lot of things. The idea that a person could die by failing to get off an empty pony onto a full backgas cylinder is probably one of those.

I keep my pony in front of me, diagonally across my chest. I keep it turned on and I check to make sure all is working before I jump in the water. I also know what movements my hands need to make to reach the stage 2 on my pony, in case of failure of my main tank.
I have done a ton of research on diving solo, and I know that my pony, is my get out of crap card. It is not to be included in my gas planning at all. There is no chance I would be breathing off my pony instead of my main tank.

 

[KenGordon]

I keep my pony in front of me, diagonally across my chest. I keep it turned on and I check to make sure all is working before I jump in the water. I also know what movements my hands need to make to reach the stage 2 on my pony, in case of failure of my main tank.
I have done a ton of research on diving solo, and I know that my pony, is my get out of crap card. It is not to be included in my gas planning at all. There is no chance I would be breathing off my pony instead of my main tank.

You say you started with a different configuration. Was that a worse configuration or a better one? Do you know more now with 140 dives than you did at the end of your first course? Have you had any failures of the main supply? Have you lost your buddy so often that an OOG situation following separation would have been a real risk? While you were still a new diver were your dives high risk dives needing redundancy? Did having a pony encourage you to go deeper and push things a bit more?

You must have practically dived every weekend since you started. That is not typical. As I said in my first post, beginners need to start easy and build up. A pony is not necessary for the dives beginners ought to be doing. It may be the case that single divers without a regular buddy are paranoid about being out of gas and think that a pony fixes that. That is a difficult place to be.

 

[Gandalf-the-Diver]

You say you started with a different configuration. Was that a worse configuration or a better one? Do you know more now with 140 dives than you did at the end of your first course? Have you had any failures of the main supply? Have you lost your buddy so often that an OOG situation following separation would have been a real risk? While you were still a new diver were your dives high risk dives needing redundancy? Did having a pony encourage you to go deeper and push things a bit more?

You must have practically dived every weekend since you started. That is not typical. As I said in my first post, beginners need to start easy and build up. A pony is not necessary for the dives beginners ought to be doing. It may be the case that single divers without a regular buddy are paranoid about being out of gas and think that a pony fixes that. That is a difficult place to be.

I started with a 13cu pony and slung that on my left side. I then started slinging it diagonally, as I found it better balanced. I then moved up to a 30cu, but I still sling that diagonally. I dive 2-5 times a week, midweek and weekend, in vis that ranges from 100' (very rare) to I am using a white cane. I can only dive like that as I have all my own gear, rentals are not required.

Usually, I find the top 30' can be very limited vis and quite a few times, one's buddy could be 3' away and you would not know it. A lot of times, we are dropping straight through the soup layer before we see each other again, and conversely, I could be on a safety stop, and have no idea where my buddy is. I am diving in the Pacific NW, off Vancouver Island.
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I have run out of gas once, early on, trying primarily to hover at a safety stop in pea soup vis. I ended up going up and down so many times, inflating, deflating, up, down, oh crap the gas I am breathing feels like it did when my instructor turned off my tank; switch to pony. It was not a gas failure, but a me failure.

My 1st 40 dives I stayed within OW limits, so nothing high risk really, but vis was sometimes a real issue. I started quite easy with my dives, sticking to ones a beginner would be comfortable on, and avoiding high current dives. It was after my 1st 40 dives, I did my AOW, and I carried my pony on that course. My pony did not make me go deeper. Now, I am quite comfortable, swimming along a wall at 100', checking out glass sponges. Also, do not forget, I am also diving in a drysuit, so throw that at a beginner, at the same time. Where I dive, brand new students do their OW in a drysuit.

I was never paranoid about running out of gas, more concerned about a catastrophic equipment failure, that my buddy is not able to help with, for whatever reason. The one time my computer told me I needed to do a deco stop, it got my head going, crap crap crap (ok well maybe a different word was used) while I made my way up. I did not panic, as I had 30cu of gas on my chest to help. Once I hit 40' though, my Shearwater told me I only had to do a 5 min safety stop, whew. I practice switching over to my pony, so when I need too, there is no hesitation. Most of my dive buddies are DMs, Rescue or Instructors, and a large portion dive self reliant. My SAC rate is still higher than most of my buddies, so now when we are deep, my pony allows me to look over at my buddies and wave cya up top, when my gas supply dictates is time for me to head up. The pony gives me knowledge that my 2nd air source is right with me the whole time, and my buddies are confident in my ability to actually be smart about how I come up by myself.

 

[Julius SCHMIDT]

If you suck down your primary, you should be at the surface, not reaching for a pony to extend your time. A pony is never considered as part of your gas supply, but rather, your get out of $#it supply.

The primary reason for a pony is because you have sucked down your primary

 

[Gandalf-the-Diver]

The primary reason for a pony is because you have sucked down your primary

I am going to respectfully disagree. My pony is not used in my gas planning at all. It only exists for a catastrophic failure, not running out of gas. Running out of gas is a failure by me, and I have done that once in 140+dives ... I owned that failure and my pony saved my ass.

 

[johndiver999]

The primary reason for a pony is because you have sucked down your primary

You are probably right. If we had some statistics, I bet the most common reason to use a pony is diver (or buddy) error rather than catastrophic failure of the primary scuba unit. In other words, not watching the spg and running low or out of gas.

However, even if it is true that most "utilization occurrences" are preventable, that does not negate the potential increase in safety that would be derived by having a pony bottle when an actual gear failure occurs, not to mention the safety benefit that is derived when human error comes into play.

I bet most automotive air bag deployments are similar. Accidents are primarily caused by situations the driver could/should have avoided - but not all.

 

[Lorenzoid]

My pony . . . only exists for a catastrophic failure, not running out of gas.

So you carry a pony on every dive to deal with an event having a probability of, what? Catastrophic failure where the reg fails shut and nobody is around to donate gas to you and you're too deep to do a CESA.

If you're diving in near-freezing water, with unreliable buddies, I guess the probability of such an event is significant enough that a redundant gas supply is advisable. Other than that, I suspect the probability is tiny--maybe similar to the probability of other events most divers don't have a plan for dealing with, like the boat abandoning you or, I dunno, a shark attack.

I plan for events for which the probability of occurrence or the severity of the consequences or a combination of those factors is high. With conservative gas planning, and even half decent buddy procedures, I don't see catastrophic reg failure exceeding that threshold.