Is a minimum deco style profile possible while DMing in a resort location?

[*Floater*]

I'm looking at the other end of the question . . . I'm about to go spend two weeks at dive resorts, diving with non-DIR people and non-DIR divemasters. I will want to do minimum deco -- no 15 foot safety stops -- and I'm wondering how that will go over, since my understanding is that we will be diving in small groups (4 to a DM) and very close to the DM (since they can spot the interesting, camouflaged critters).

I just tell the DM's that I want to make a few deep stops or come up super slowly because that's what I prefer, and no one has ever complained. Some DM's actually prefer that as they've heard about the benefits of deep stops. Others just want to make sure their computers are "in the green" when they come up. Also if the DM want's to take 3-5 min at 15 ft then I just spread it out over 20 and 10 feet (after the 30 ft stop). In clear water being 5 ft apart in depth is nothing in the resorts I've visited. Also, in clear waters the DM's can always go up faster with other people and then meet you and your buddy on the surface.

 

[Walter]

Diver0001 - Being that this is the DIR forum, 'every dive is a deco dive.'

'Minimum deco' does not necessarily mean a diver has incurred a 'deco obligation' beyond that normally incurred on any recreational, so-called 'NDL' dive.

Every dive has always been a deco dive. That has nothing to do with DIR vs non-DIR.

 

[Tollie]

When I lead tours it is not possible on every dive to maintain an ideal profile. As Diver0001 noted “things happen”. Today for example on our initial decent one of the guests lost control of her buoyancy and began a rapid ascent. She was (inadvertently) pressing her power inflator while she was venting air. So up I go quickly… saw tooth but you need to do what you need to do.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with a DM slowing down his/her ascent doing deep stops and pauses provided you are ready to respond to difficulties that guest have. In general I have found the GUE training (F and ½ of Tech 1) I have received has made me a much stronger dive leader. My briefings are better (SADDDD), when I need to share air with guests the smooth deployment of a long hose makes for stress less air share that are quite flexible. The whole concept of situational awareness… and stretching out ones awareness to encompass gear, environment and team (tour guests) is really what every dive leader should be doing.

Heck as a dive leader you are really modeling strong trim and control during ascent and decent and spot on trim and buoyancy during the dive. I’m always a bit thrilled when a guest (unprompted) assumes the hands out, legs up position and try’s a frog kick or two because they have seen me do it in the water.

95% of guests will do the 3 at 15 stop. I can’t see a DM forcing guests to do profiles that they were not trained to do.

If a guest wants to do a series of stops I cant imagine that this should be an issue for any DM… unless they have some kind of personal thing going. If one thinks that this might be the case I’m sure a quiet word would be enough.

 

[RTodd]

I am wondering if it would be practical for someone to work as a Dive Master in a resort location without using a computer. Profiles such as those taught by GUE are great when you are with divers of a similar mind but when leading other divers unfamiliar with them it seems like there might be logistical concerns.

Standard tables are made for the types of profiles that you would more likely be doing, but it seems to me that if used "correctly" they would be way too conservative to allow the type of diving often required by a DM.

The minimum deco profiles as taught by GUE seem like you will end up with other divers surfacing far before the DM, seems like this could be troublesome in many ways.

I would love to hear from people who have worked as DMs, as well as anyone else who has thoughts on the matter. I have been thinking a lot about the next few years of my life, and was just wondering if my grand plans of finding a job as a DM in paradise were going to require me to start diving with a computer instead of(in addition to?) my trusty Bottom Timer.

~Jess

I hate to answer this thread since it will be difficult to do without using the word stroke about 50 times. But, the answer to your question is yes, it is very easy. My interaction with divemasters in the south pacific is pretty much limited to between dives on the boat. While I can say the average quality is lower in this part of the world and their ascent strategies are probably not as good, it would still be very doable. When guiding, the clients follow you. If you lead them on a slow gradual ascent, they will do it. In locations where their are more professional local DMs, such as Cozumel, you will see this. While these guys don't do exact 1 minute stop and move, the better ones do effectively do a nice gradual ascent up to 15' and many pull a 10' stop as well. Their gear and attitude may be a disaster in other areas, but people that do this long enough do figure out what keeps you from feeling like crap after a day of diving.

 

[Snowbear]

Every dive has always been a deco dive. That has nothing to do with DIR vs non-DIR.

I know that. You know that. A few others hopefully know that as well.

But in the DIR forum that is supposed to be known... whereas on most of the rest of the board, there are very few people who would see the term, 'minimum deco' and NOT assume a 'deco obligation' had not been incurred beyond a recreational 'NDL' dive profile

 

[Kim]

I'm not sure if this answer is allowed in this forum so it might 'disappear'.

In my experience diving in Thailand and Malaysia a DM leading a dive would be required to wear a computer, as the customers are.

Presumably what he/she did with that computer and how the dive was led would depend on the DM. Presumably if customers didn't complain there would be no problem. If there were comments surfacing I should imagine that the DM would be asked to adhere to the standards of whichever agency his company belonged to.

In the end there's often a difference between what you may do personally, and what you get paid to do.

 

[Snowbear]

I am wondering if it would be practical for someone to work as a Dive Master in a resort location without using a computer. Profiles such as those taught by GUE are great when you are with divers of a similar mind but when leading other divers unfamiliar with them it seems like there might be logistical concerns.

To directly answer this part of your question -

No. As long as you know your tables and can do the 'depth averaging' method of keeping track of your dive profile, you should be able to easily stay within the profiles of any computer the clients who are trusting you to lead their dives may be wearing. As RTodd noted, if you're subtle about it, they probably won't even notice

And to accomodate their 3 minutes at 15 'safety stop', just spend 3 minutes getting from 20' - 10', say a minute at 20', a minute at 15' and a minute at 10'. Again, most followers either won't notice, or will rise and sink that much during their 'safety stop' anyhow.

 

[Snowbear]

... I should imagine that the DM would be asked to adhere to the standards of whichever agency his company belonged to....

And what standards of what agency(ies) might those be that would be violated by a GUE style profile?

 

[Kim]

And what standards of what agency(ies) might those be that would be violated by a GUE style profile?

The standards of the agencies that talk about ascending at slow speeds to 5 meters and then doing a safety stop before surfacing. By the way - this is also what most peoples computers are telling them to do.
Some of the above advice is fine if there is still stuff around to look at - many sites in Thailand though the depths being discussed here are blue water using a SS. It's not elegant but most of the divers I've seen tend to make rather inelegant ascents to 5 meters (often way too fast) where the DM acts as a reference point and tries to prevent others popping up because of lack of control.

This isn't a discussion about 'best practice' - it's about the reality of 'paradise' resort diving and working in that environment.
Personally I think that this question wouldd actually get better answers if posed in some of the resort location forums - like Thailand, Cozumel etc etc depending on where the OP wants to work. Then the answers would be coming from people who actually work there and know what's expected. That would possibly be more helpful.

 

[amascuba]

A DM that I dove with in T&C preferred the min deco profiles and it was brought up during dive briefings.