Is a group leader (DM) usually expected on a boat?

[cerich]

A DM isn't a lifeguard. They are there to brief/debrief and possibly lead certified divers on fun dives. They do this in a professional capacity.

Certified divers are just that certified, and as such have the say in dive/don't dive and are responsible for their own safety and diving within their experience and training.

A DM is trained in rescue so they can assist if required.

If I'm getting payed to divemaster I'm in the water trying to ensure my client has the best possible dive so I get the best possible tip. Little things like pointing out a juv. spotted drum goes a long way....

But if the practice is to stay on the boat and just brief and debrief then they are still being a divmaster as long as they really brief well.

 

[underachiever]

Thanks for the responses. So most of the time. no, in the states.

Like I said I was not expecting one. Just after reading here I noticed some comments where it was happening. We are headed back to Key Largo in a couple of weeks and hopefully again 2 weeks after that. We have got the bug.

I had thought about maybe getting a guide if we do the Benwood and French reef and maybe Carysfort (sp?) Or maybe not.

Thanks again,
Randy and Angie

 

[Walter]

Assuming your class was adequate, you don't need a DM to dive with you.

 

[herman]

DMs/Guides are pretty much non existant in NC, our ops assume you know what you are doing and I would suspect most of the divers here would revolt against an op who tried to put one with us. In Bonaire the ops do send one along but it's your choice to follow them or just be back in an hour.

 

[wreckchick]

The additional training is more in how to plan and brief a dive for someone who may not be familiar with local diving. The additional card is to allow that person to acquire the professional liability insurance needed to direct divers how to conduct a dive vs. "make suggestions" which is all I was allowed to do before the DM cert was finished.

There are 2 distinct elements to a card-holding divemaster, one is to supervise certified divers, the other is to assist with students. Supervising from the deck is no less supervising than being in the water with them.

Rachel

 

[cornfed]

Supervising from the deck is no less supervising than being in the water with them.

Sorry Rachel but I don't buy it. Unless you're in the water I don't see how it's any different than being a life guard (which a recuse diver could probably handle). I'm not diminishing the role of dive masters but I don't see why someone doing the job of a mate or deck hand should be considered a dive master just because they have the card.

I'm sure there are a lot of good reason to have a DM as a mate on a dive boat. But if they're not diving with anyone they're just a mate. They may be over qualified for the position but they're still a mate.

I don't want to get into a debate about training and needing a DM, but a lot of people on SB seem to think a DM will be there to guide them around and help out _during_ the dive. In fact the original poster thought it was odd there wasn't one and said they would have prefereed on to guide them straight to a particular spot to look at. Saying that DM is on the boat supervising is a far cry from the image these people have in their head when the hear the term "dive master". I believe that suggesting a DM on the a boat is close the the same role is a disservice to people.

I just don't see how someone on the boat can act in the same capacity as someone in the water with you.

 

[wreckchick]

They don't.

It's the difference between piling everyone from the boat into the water to follow someone around and letting independent teams do their own dive and being at the ready to assist pre and post dive in addition to "lifeguarding" during the dive.

I think there's been plenty of discussion about dives going badly with a divemaster in the water to say that the "guide" position isn't really a divemaster level job either. What is that person doing that a rescue diver can't do? Leading certified divers around is hardly more than babysitting in many instances.

R

 

[donooo]

And further more, one of the most obvious places where you find the DM in the water is Cozumel, and I belive, in most all drift dives. The reasons are maybe at least three.
1) The importance in dift dives ( Cozumel ) of the group staying together, going in together and "usually" exiting together. Obviously there are some exceptions to exiting together.
2) Especially on Cozumel, you have to keep an eye on the divers to "help" them keep track of there depth on the walls. So the don't wander off into nothingness.
3)You can't belive how many divers can't make up a plan, let alone dive it. So the DM's keep track of the lazy. ( or new ) For virtually no brain diving.

Most of my diving has been on Cozumel. But in San Diego the DM's didn't go in the water. They did briefing's, head counts and helped those of us that were a little slow getting it together. Of course they had training, responsibility, experience and insurance. No doupt the would of been a lifeguard or a mainenance tech if need be. Bet they even helped the skipper. I left a bigger tip in SD then on CZM.

adios don O

 

[Walter]

And further more, one of the most obvious places where you find the DM in the water is Cozumel, and I belive, in most all drift dives. The reasons are maybe at least three.
1) The importance in dift dives ( Cozumel ) of the group staying together, going in together and "usually" exiting together. Obviously there are some exceptions to exiting together.

First, the diving in Cozumel is live boating, not drift diving. Second, groups can stay together without a DM in the water.

2) Especially on Cozumel, you have to keep an eye on the divers to "help" them keep track of there depth on the walls. So the don't wander off into nothingness.

Anyone who can't keep track of their own depth shouldn't have a c-card.

3)You can't belive how many divers can't make up a plan, let alone dive it. So the DM's keep track of the lazy. ( or new ) For virtually no brain diving.

I know, it's a crime that they are certified. The solution is to treat people like they actually know what they are doing. If they don't, they can get the training they missed in OW.

 

[drbill]

Here on Catalina DM's are only in the water on guided dives. Boats do three unguided dives or two guided dives a day depending on the number of passengers on board. An individual can always request a guide.

According to the DM manual, a DM may be stationed wherever is best for overseeing the group. On commercial dive boats that is often on board since there may be several individual groups going off in different directions at a dive site and it is easier to watch them from that perspectove.