Is a God Needed for Morality?

[Green_Manelishi]

To some, it is just as obvious that the bible doesn't have the market on dictating moral behavior cornered either.

From the Biblical perspective it does. The slaves were taken from pagan nations. Since the earth and all that is in it (and on it) belongs to God he can pretty much do whatever He choses, even flood it. Before you twist your thinsulate into a knot, isn't that the "logic" the prochoicers use? "My body. My choice." Well, God's creation, God's choice. How He exercises His will is up to Him; sometimes it's the complete destruction of a city other times its the death of one person (wicked OT Kings, or even Jesus Christ)

It is interesting to note that the pagan, animist, polytheistic, world cultures have slowly been 'assimilated' into the Western world. Sadly it was too frequently through excessive "Christian" force but none-the-less it does seem to be a case of (Old Testament) "My God is more powerful than your god(s)." Even the descendants of former slaves have marveled that God took slavery and used it to bring knowledge of Him to pagan cultures.

I did find the story of the Arawak's to be interesting; especially their belief in a flood.

 

[Thalassamania]

I did find the story of the Arawak's to be interesting; especially their belief in a flood.

For those not familiar with it: "The origin of the oceans was in a huge flood which occurred when a father murdered his son (who was about to murder the father), and then put his bones in a calabash. The bones turned to fish and then the gourd broke and all the water of the world flowed from the broken gourd."

 

[Green_Manelishi]

Actually it is a perfect example, but not in the way that you think. Enron is no more, it did not get access to the gene pool of succeding generations because it stripped it's enviornment and became extinct.
Have you any data (besides bronze age mythology) to support the idea that man is anything other than an animal?

Skilling was a fan of Dawkins. With no objective moral compass he did whatever he needed to do in order to make money and he encouraged others to do the same. If we are in fact animals then we will not care that we lay waste to everything in pursuit of our best interests. Enron might have collapsed but he and Lay (and others) would survive with their millions. Lay died. Meanwhile, the weak lost their money.

 

[Soggy]

And from where did you gather that knowledge? Was it internal or taught to you?

Some concepts of morality are biologically founded. Some are sociologically oriented. Some are learned. Ultimately, my view is that harming another is to be avoided and if one acts according to that standard, things mostly work themselves out.

Keep in mind that ideas of right and wrong can vary culturally;
there are cultures in which treachery and murder (from our standards) was much admired. There is an existing culture that believes certain persons are untouchable and pretty much lower than dirt. Others still openly practice slavery. Would you say those behaviors are wrong? If so, why? It's their culture. What moral standard would you use for determining right and wrong? Obviously culture should not be the standard.

Sure, slavery is wrong if it causes harm to others, which it usually does.

 

[Soggy]

Before you twist your thinsulate into a knot, isn't that the "logic" the prochoicers use? "My body. My choice."

Umm, no that isn't the logic they use. That's part of it, but the important part that you are missing is the lack of sentience in a first trimester baby.

You use God's ultimate word as your basis for morality, I choose to use reason.

 

[Soggy]

If we are in fact animals then we will not care that we lay waste to everything in pursuit of our best interests.

That's funny. We are one of the few animals that behave in such a way. Most animals develop a natural balance with their environment...we tend to conquer and rape the environment.

 

[agilis]

Tales of ancient floods predate the Bible, and are found in many cultures. This should come as no surprise, since many episodes of catastrophically huge floods happened when Humans were present, much of it before any surviving recorded history. The flooding of the Mediterranean basin may have happened when humans were present, perhaps quite suddenly due to seismic activity. Probably the Black Sea as well, which may be the origin of the Biblical flood story, which the Hebrews borrowed from many other earlier flood accounts, just adding Noah and all that idiocy.

There is also the slower process which flooded all of the world's shorelines as the glaciers melted. This deepening of the sea by something close to 100 feet flooded out many early settlements among the original inhabitants of North and South America, and turned large chunks of Central America into islands. Ballard's current exploration of early Native American settlements that are now located miles offshore, deep under water is an example of this phenomenon. I personally have seen artifacts that are thousands of years old found by divers in sites off the NJ coast. To imply that these events somehow validate the story of the Biblical Flood is ignorant foolishness; wishful thinking at best, and likely disingenous.

 

[mase]

1. I like being an animal. I trust my animal Instincts.
2. Good and evil. One can't exist without the other. The Duality of all things.
3. The Morality of the God in the Old Testament is highly questionable.
4. I don't know if there is a God or not but my morality does not spring from his, hers or its teachings. He's been playing hide and seek for way too long.

 

[Green_Manelishi]

Tales of ancient floods predate the Bible, and are found in many cultures. This should come as no surprise, since many episodes of catastrophically huge floods happened when Humans were present, much of it before any surviving recorded history. The flooding of the Mediterranean basin may have happened when humans were present, perhaps quite suddenly due to seismic activity. Probably the Black Sea as well, which may be the origin of the Biblical flood story, which the Hebrews borrowed from many other earlier flood accounts, just adding Noah and all that idiocy.

There is also the slower process which flooded all of the world's shorelines as the glaciers melted. This deepening of the sea by something close to 100 feet flooded out many early settlements among the original inhabitants of North and South America, and turned large chunks of Central America into islands. Ballard's current exploration of early Native American settlements that are now located miles offshore, deep under water is an example of this phenomenon. I personally have seen artifacts that are thousands of years old found by divers in sites off the NJ coast. To imply that these events somehow validate the story of the Biblical Flood is ignorant foolishness; wishful thinking at best, and likely disingenous.

The tales, oral tradition, are the surviving remnants of the truth that was later written to set the record straight. It was not two brothers and a gourd. It was not a giant crocodile, winged serpent, Odin, etc.

Idiocy? Ignorant foolishness? ROFLMGAO ... Is this when I complain to a moderator?

 

[Soggy]

The tales, oral tradition, are the surviving remnants of the truth that was later written to set the record straight. It was not two brothers and a gourd. It was not a giant crocodile, winged serpent, Odin, etc.

I love that you speak of your opinions on these matters like they are documented fact.

I'm aware of your closed-mindedness to other ideas (like demonstrable science), but please realize that many many other people in this world (at least 4.5 billion of the 6.5 billion people on the planet) believe that you are wrong and that bible thumping does nothing to further your argument.