Hmmmm....I keep hearing about this book...I'm going to have to read it.Geoff_H:
The way this board is going these days it might prove to be more useful than the Encyclopedia of Recreational Diving!
Is a God Needed for Morality?
- Thread starter H2Andy
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The way this board is going these days it might prove to be more useful than the Encyclopedia of Recreational Diving!
sandjeep
Contributor
H2Andy:
I must have missed something after I went to sleep, why was it taken down?
sandjeep
Contributor
At least, an explanation is in order, such as the Rumsfield post has. Was there an official complaint logged? Did a single post result in a TOS violation and cause the entire thread to be removed by a Mod?
Just for you!sandjeep:
There were complaints....
It was first closed....
It was then removed for inspection and possible maintenance...
Remember what Arnold said!
sandjeep
Contributor
Kim:Just for you!
There were complaints....
It was first closed....
It was then removed for inspection and possible maintenance...
Remember what Arnold said!
Fair enough and thanks for the reply.
lamont:
Some Christians say and do all sorts of things. I would say that it's because they are people.
One Sunday I had to stop at walmart on the way taking my daughter back to school. The parking lot is on a bit of the hill and I sat there watching literally hundreds of people (an obvious majority) leave their cart in the lot only to roll into someone elses car. In about an hours time, I saw several cars damaged and saved a couple by running to stop the run-away carts. Some of those people actually gave their cart a push. Almost unbelievably some of the people who had their own car damaged, in turn, left their cart to roll down the hill.
By the way they were dressed, I got the distinct impression that some of those people had just come from church. I didn't count but I don't think that was a majority. Though the MAJORITY obviously thought their time and effort was more important than the next guys car.
Everyone wants to think they are better or more important. Every one has some reason to be proud. Some Christians might think they are better because they are Christians. Other people think they are better or more important for some other reason.
Have you been on a Chicago toll road lately...a graphic illustration of the overall selfishness of people to the point of them being willing to risk your life to get 10 ft further ahead. Their 10 ft is clearly more important to them than your life.
The philosophical belief that all athiests are any more immoral or selfish than anyone else is a construct of an individual and not one of Christianity. It isn't Biblical and I wouldn't consider it as Christian doctrin. According to the Bible, we are all sinful by nature. That exactly matches what I have witnessed and experienced every single day of my life. If we weren't sinful by nature, we wouldn't need Christ.
To answer the original question, people need something in order to be "moral". By direct observation I have to say that left on their own and when no one they know is looking, (when they think they are going to get away with it) they're pretty nasty.
I personaly don't feel that modern Christianity does much to help this. By nature humans are "good" and "moral". Many things can happen in someones life that cause people to ignore or alter there morals, but when it comes down to it even the cruelest most evil people come up with ways to justify their actions to themselves. To me this says that by default they have some sort of morals. Over time they may become warped or even ignored but there was morality there. My problem with many religions is that I don't believe "because I said so," "because I am your mother," or "because god said so" are arguments that actually do much to reinforce sound morals. They may teach people to not break the rules when they think someone is watching, but as you said when they think they can get away with it all bets are off. Now if instead of a set of rules that can be bent and broken you instill a sense of identification and commonality with fellow man then you will end up with a much stronger moral base. I don't feel that this requires religion, but some sense of spirituality may be useful.MikeFerrara:
I have known a good number of people who did not believe in religion and had zero respect for the legal system. Despite not abiding by these traditional moral codes they did have their own set of morality, and some of them are the kindest, most caring and sharing individuals I have ever known.
~Jess
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It appears that some of the more angelic MODS couldn't stand the heat (Too close to hell? Not going their way?) and pulled the plug. I'd say the apes won because the angels took their ball and went home (with all respect to those who did not surrender and stuck it out: Mike, Pug, et.al.).NWGratefulDiver:
Note: More recent information has come my way and clearly my initial impression was incorrect. It appears that my original assumption was incorrect and I apologize to any that I may have distressed.
Soggy
Contributor
H2Andy:
Yup, there's a whole study devoted to just this...it's called Ethics.
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Any animal whatever, endowed with well-marked social instincts, the parental and filial affections being here included, would inevitably acquire a moral sense or conscience, as soon as its intellectual powers had become as well, or nearly as well developed, as in man. Charles Darwin, (Descent of Man, Chapter 4)
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