Is a computer actually necessary?

[jviehe]

Are dive computers safer than tables?

-In certain situations, yes. Specifically, to alleviate user error.

Are they a neccesity?

-No. Neither are tables. A method for measuring N loading is, however, be it computers, tables, or 120 rule.

Dive computers do give great advantages, though. MMM, hoseless.

 

[Lead_carrier]

Computers aren't neccessary, also on the list of not "neccessary" are tables, tempered mask lens, alternate air source, balanced regs, quality wet suits, different models of fins, low volume mask and the list could go on.

The shop owner that said anyone that dives without a computer is stupid is about as dumb as someone that says diving with them is.

Uncle Pug once bubbled...
Short Answer - No.

Long Answer - Noooooo.

Apothegm: computers rot your brain

If computers rot your brain UP. How were you able to get the post office to post this letter for you? I'm sure you wrote it long hand and snail mailed it.
:wacko:

 

[Arnaud]

Mo2vation once bubbled...
...so long as the products are represented honestly and the students have the facts and can make an informed decision...

I don't like generalizations, but most shops that I know teach the OW cert. mainly to sell a full gear package to their new students. This is confirmed by stories like Kimsey0's. This is their primary source of revenue and the largest one time buy their patrons will probably ever make.

Obviously, LDS's, like any business, need to sell. And they need to sell their inventory before anything else. That's fair game. But that's not really in the beginner's interest. By definition, the OW student can't know everything about dive gear. And unless he or she has access to a neutral third party mentor, the student is usually left to believe whatever the LDS is saying.

Moreover, a car buyer usually has access to several dealerships. But the diving biz is not that competitive. A market, to be truly free, requires a great number of buyers and sellers. The diving markets, at a local level, usually are oligopolistic, if not simply monopolistic. And while the Internet now offers an alternative, at a beginner's level, it can be quite intimidating.

I'd go further. It's probably not in the beginner's interest to own any gear (besides mask and fins) at the outset. We all agree that it's important to own our gear eventually. But why does the "buy" have to occur sometimes even before the first OW dive?

In Europe (sorry), where the instruction is handled mostly by dive centers and the LDS usually just sell gear, beginners and newly certified divers will rent their gear from the dive centers. And the dive centers don't sell the gear they rent. Most instructors have zero interest in selling gear to their students. To use the car analogy again, it's a little like driving your parents' car before you get to drive your own. And you're not under pressure to rush for the store.

Now, the main caveat is that diving in Europe, especially in France, is heavily regulated. Divers spend as much time, if not more, learning the various laws governing the industry than the tables (that are of course regulated as well). And no dive computers will help you with that…

 

[saying]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

Can I just go hiking?

I think, considering the map/tables or computer/GPS metaphor, not.

At least not unless you're hiking/diving in a local park/swimming pool. If I was rocking the NW Territitories/NW Kelp forrests I'd like a GPS/Computer with me.

This becomes irrelevant when you're talking the Andes or the Andria Dorea because at that point you have every moment planned out. On the other hand, I think it's perfectly appropriate to just wander sometimes... and in that case I want a GPS or computer to pay attention to the minutia for me (a pronounced mathmatical moron who doesn't just run the risk of an error with NDL calculations... it's an inevitability).

Is it nessecary for the dive? No. But, then, neither is a tank. Ask Pipin.

 

[BigJetDriver]

James connell once bubbled...


this is possibly the dumbest question in this thread!

you looked at it just a couple of minutes ago right? you do know your max depth/bottom time? it was there just a few minutes ago - GO UP, no faster than your slowest bubble. if you can fix it great - if not you're done diving till you get a handle on N2 - rest of the day maybe.

you guys make this seem like it a hard thing ! gees, what do you do if your car's gas gauge stops working in winter and it's 10 deg - pull off the road until you get it fixed? no you say - well it had a half tank just 10 miles ago and the next gas station is ~40 mi up the road i'll fill up there and fix it if they can otherwise i can make it to the next town. or do you carry a spare fuel gauge?

DA - maybe SOME computers have that "fudge" factor but not all and i'v seen very few tables with ANY , if you push them to the max you have hit the MValue after that it's a deco.

Okay, Sunny Jim!

I'll bite! What in the bloody h*** does your statement have to do with what we were talking about?

No, you don't generally carry a spare fuel gauge in your car, unless you are in the Outback, or somwhere in the back-o-beyond! That is a silly anology.

We are talking about equipment to make your progress through an unforgiving environment easier and safer. In diving, as in flying, redundancy can well be the key to life itself!

The question was: "Computer; yes or no? Can one go without?" Answer: "Don't be silly! One can, and we all have! Does it make life easier? In many ways it certainly does!"

Do you want to dive without a computer? Well, Sunny Jim, as one of our writers here likes to say: "I don't give a monkey's toss whether you want to dive naked with weights strapped to your body with barbed wire!" Have at it!

But do not make arrogant statements like: "That's the dumbest question in this thread!"

First of all, as you should know, there ARE no dumb questions, only dumb answers! And second, that kind of attitude only begets answers like: "Your analogy is one of the most inane ever seen in this thread, or many others, for that matter!":fury:

 

[MikeFerrara]

bertschb once bubbled...


Come on guys- computers are a great diving tool and well worth owning if you can afford one. They are especially helpfull for multi-tank, multi-day diving or diving an unfamiliar site where you aren't sure exactly what depths you'll be at and for how long. With a computer you can drop down 20' to look at that fish. Without a computer you either have to stick to your orginal plan or re-compute your dive. No thanks. I'll enjoy the dive and let the computer do the math.

This is just what they tell you to get you to buy a computer. LOL

The computer also helps me analyze my dives with far more (useful) information than I could ever log manually.

What do you do with the info?

 

[jrg]

Dive computers are nifty (and expensive) gadgets. But no, you don't "need" one, and you're not "stupid" for using gauges.

 

[boomx5]

Looks like someone hit a nerve.

 

[Uncle Pug]

saying once bubbled...
I think, considering the map/tables or computer/GPS metaphor, not.

At least not unless you're hiking/diving in a local park/swimming pool. If I was rocking the NW Territitories/NW Kelp forrests I'd like a GPS/Computer with me.

I've spent plenty of time crawling around in the brush chasing elk from ridge to ridge without having a GPS or map. Always got back in time for dinner too... some times we ate in the dark... but at least we got back.

 

[Uncle Pug]

boomx5 once bubbled...
Looks like someone hit a nerve.

Looks like somebody took a hike without their GPS.
Hmmm... wonder how that happened... oh, well.