Is a computer actually necessary?

[cantlogon]

....then my boss forced me to take one. I find (echoing many previous posters) that they're a nice convenience...but I'd recommend doing enough diving with tables FIRST so that you really get a feel for them before you use the computer. Or, if you have money to burn, bring the computer along, but be sure to get competent with the tables. And always have some sort of depth gauge/timer (i.e. underwater watch) in case your computer goes belly up.

You're not stupid for not getting a computer right away...and I don't have a very high opinion for any dive shop staff who'd treat their customers in that way.

Chris
www.letsdiveguam.com

 

[bertschb]

To answer the original question - NO computers are not necessary. Many of us started diving when there were no computers (or BC's for that matter). But, they are a huge advancement for diving. When was the last time you balanced your check book without a calculator? If you're a pilot, do you remember what it was like navigating before GPS came along?

Come on guys- computers are a great diving tool and well worth owning if you can afford one. They are especially helpfull for multi-tank, multi-day diving or diving an unfamiliar site where you aren't sure exactly what depths you'll be at and for how long. With a computer you can drop down 20' to look at that fish. Without a computer you either have to stick to your orginal plan or re-compute your dive. No thanks. I'll enjoy the dive and let the computer do the math.

The computer also helps me analyze my dives with far more (useful) information than I could ever log manually.

If you have the money and plan to continue diving - buy a computer. Not necessary, but a very, very nice tool.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

cwinston once bubbled...
...only a computer can monitor ascent rate acurately enough to prevent over expansion injuries.

This statement is incorrect.

My Bottom Timer monitor's ascent rate and provides warning as the wearer approaches or exceeds 60 fpm.

My backup displays a rolling stopwatch and depth. Its fairly easy to maintain your ascent rate by watching those two indicators.

So, once again, computers are nice to have, but are not necessary by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Instuctors in this area make about $50.00 per student in a $200 open water course with the rest going to the shop to cover their costs and to provide them with some profit. So with a full class of 8 students an instructor will make $400 for the entire course including check dives. It is not what you would call big money.

If the shop is also paying the instuctor a commission on gear sales, then it creates a situation where the instructor can often make as much or more money off sales than training, especially with high dollar items like computers.

Often though it is just the shop owner or manager pressuring instructors to make sales, and in extreme case if you consistently don't make sales you don't get scheduled for many classes.

It also costs an instructor about $300 per year for liability insurance so the first course of the year is essentially a freebie. So being scheduled for follow up classes is important.

So it may not be an evil instructor as much as an evil shop owner. You can always ask the instructor why they are making the big push.

 

[bwerb]

DA Aquamaster once bubbled...

Often though it is just the shop owner or manager pressuring instructors to make sales, and in extreme case if you consistently don't make sales you don't get scheduled for many classes.

So it may not be an evil instructor as much as an evil shop owner. You can always ask the instructor why they are making the big push.

So...this is a perfect example of why gear sales should be divorced entirely from OW training. The new students are not getting "honest" answers but are instead pressured to purchase expensive gear to keep the instuctor well renumerated. This gear may or may not be neccesary to the student but the commission is very important to the instructor. What a tremendous conflict of interest we've created...yuck.

Since the instructor in question is already on record as to giving out suspect "advise", indicating that they have bought into the program, I'd recommend finding another instructor as well.

 

[Diver0001]

bwerb once bubbled...


So...this is a perfect example of why gear sales should be divorced entirely from OW training. <snip>

I agree. In reality, though, training is often a loss-leader to pump up equipment sales. If training were profitable for a shop then you'd think you could avoid this problem but you'd probably have a lot fewer students because the guy two doors down will be offering the same course for less and making the same (if not larger) revenue numbers on turn-around and gear sales. It's not an accident that the industry works like this. His shop will also look bigger and busier and that will convince a lot of people that it must be better. Even organisations that only train have to compete with shops that offer the $99 specials (plus the 20% seasonal discounts, free flippers and whatever it takes to get you in the door).

It's not an easily solved problem.

R..

 

[adder70]

14 hours and 35 posts! And in response to a first post... of a poster with no profile info...

I am waiting to see what happens with Kimsey0.

If no other posts pop up soon, and the profile remains stale... I am thinking...

Great troll, and what a well implemented sock puppet!

Assuming he/she is a legitimate poster, obviously a newbie to scuba and a reasonable first post, especially when confronted with such an openly hostile and narrow-mided instructor/LDS owner, but that's pretty impressive to have a first post that inpires such quick response!

Now, responding to some of the posts I have seen...

This instructor was a replacement, and was the actual shop owner. My guess would be that the ownere was desperate and removed the original instructor for failure to sufficiently "push" the shop equipment. They may stay afloat for another course or so, but that kind of attitude is sure to close that store down in short order.

 

[Dr Deco]

Computers and Tables:

You certainly can dive with only a table (for the “pressure road map”) rather than a computer. It is not unlike the question, “Can I go hiking with a map or must I have a GPS?”

Dr Decompression =-)

 

[Uncle Pug]

Dr Deco once bubbled...
It is not unlike the question, “Can I go hiking with a map or must I have a GPS?”

Can I just go hiking?

 

[Mo2vation]

bwerb once bubbled...


So...this is a perfect example of why gear sales should be divorced entirely from OW training.

Arnaud mentioned this to me recently - that in some places outside the US, there are dive training centers that are not associated with "shops". Its interesting ("independent schools), but mabye because I'm a professional marketer and sales person, its hard for me to divorce the two.

I understand the arguement that drivers ed schools don't sell cars, and all that. In a market economy like ours I see it hard to separate the two.

In its best context, it gives the student a chance to try stuff out. In its worse, it becomes celebrity endorsement (think Apare Air Jordon.)

But there is middle ground - products with attractive GP offsetting costs, moving students to perfectly adequate products that offer more attractive margins for shops, etc. I really don't have a problem with that. Again, so long as the products are represented honestly and the students have the facts and can make an informed decision.

I have stuff I've purchased that I regret, and I've seend first hand the shops that overload new divers to the extent they look like a walking Trident display with all manner of retractor, clip and crapola hanging off of them.

This is an interesting side road to this thread. We may have to dive into this one someday.

K