SuPrBuGmAn
Contributor
BTW, who's the person at your LDS? What LDS?... and where's it at?
Is a buddy in a cave considered to be liability ?
- Thread starter elan
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Kevin Carlisle
Contributor
I would find a new LDS.. As Cave Diver said I would not dive with them either.
Kevin Carlisle
Contributor
Guys, relaxThis guy and me we were just filling the tanks at the LDS, LDS has nothing to do with his opinion. He is just a client of that LDS, just as I am. I see this guy from time to time on our dive sites.
Ok, keep the LDS, but don't dive with him
.. I don't know that I would want to be near him filling tanks either if he said all that.
I look at it this way:
Could a buddy be a liability? Yes. If they have the wrong mindset, insufficient training, poor skills, etc.
But that's not the type of buddy I'm going to find myself in a cave with, because if they're an unknown buddy you can bet your ass that I'm not going into a situation with them til I'm comfortable with their knowledge, skill and mindset. Maybe that means I won't dive with them at all, maybe it means I'll only do an "easy" dive until I've assessed their skills (and them mine).
Could a buddy be a liability? Yes. If they have the wrong mindset, insufficient training, poor skills, etc.
But that's not the type of buddy I'm going to find myself in a cave with, because if they're an unknown buddy you can bet your ass that I'm not going into a situation with them til I'm comfortable with their knowledge, skill and mindset. Maybe that means I won't dive with them at all, maybe it means I'll only do an "easy" dive until I've assessed their skills (and them mine).
The diver's who think "a buddy" is a liability are obviously way beyond making any mistake themselves that might benefit from having a buddy catch it. To me, more than any other factor, this lack of humility creates far more risk than a reasonably well trained and experienced buddy ever could (ignoring obvious train wreck instabuddy type situations).
I have only dived backmounts so far but I think that you wouldn't need a long hose when diving sidemounts. If another diver loses all his gas, just unclip one of your tanks and pass it to him. It doesn't even matter much if he's diving back or sidemounts.
I'm seeing some of you being completely against solo diving and it's fine if you don't want to do it but in many countries, maybe mainly Europe that has been a standard procedure since the beginning of cave diving and they have done some amazing stuff. The conditions are sometimes very different where the water is more like mud and the benefits of having another diver with you are smaller than the increased risk. The SM diver will have independent gas sources, the second diver won't see anything, can become entangled more easily, they'll be crammed into tiny places where sometimes SM isn't even an option, it's more no-mount and where another person is a nuisance especially if you have to go back and the can't tell the guy behind you what's happening because he can't see and you can't turn to use your hands to communicate (maybe kicking him then?), or if you are trying to find a passage and are going back and forth a lot and would have another person trashing more the vis and who you'd have to somehow tell your intentions to, if you're the second diver and get entangled, the guy in front of you can't do anything and if you have to cut the line he won't have a continuous line any more,...
And if you don't need extra gas and the diver following you can't see anything so can't validate the jumps, can't see if you're doing something wrong, can't discuss things with you (here goes the "having a second brain" argument out of the window, can't observe the cave properly even for his own safety, why would you want him there? Because you can have some kind of problem, feel ill or something like that? And would he be able to rescue you in this type of environment? No.
Also, it's up to the diver to decide how much risk he's willing to accept. Some people think diving on air to 40m (140 feet) is OK, others say it should be 30m (100'), others have been much deeper than that... it's their choice.
And with this post I'm not defending solo cave diving, I haven't done it, I enjoy having someone with me, but I know people who have done it, people who think of it as a necessity and a safer way to dive and there is some truth in their arguments.
I'm seeing some of you being completely against solo diving and it's fine if you don't want to do it but in many countries, maybe mainly Europe that has been a standard procedure since the beginning of cave diving and they have done some amazing stuff. The conditions are sometimes very different where the water is more like mud and the benefits of having another diver with you are smaller than the increased risk. The SM diver will have independent gas sources, the second diver won't see anything, can become entangled more easily, they'll be crammed into tiny places where sometimes SM isn't even an option, it's more no-mount and where another person is a nuisance especially if you have to go back and the can't tell the guy behind you what's happening because he can't see and you can't turn to use your hands to communicate (maybe kicking him then?
), or if you are trying to find a passage and are going back and forth a lot and would have another person trashing more the vis and who you'd have to somehow tell your intentions to, if you're the second diver and get entangled, the guy in front of you can't do anything and if you have to cut the line he won't have a continuous line any more,...And if you don't need extra gas and the diver following you can't see anything so can't validate the jumps, can't see if you're doing something wrong, can't discuss things with you (here goes the "having a second brain" argument out of the window, can't observe the cave properly even for his own safety, why would you want him there? Because you can have some kind of problem, feel ill or something like that? And would he be able to rescue you in this type of environment? No.
Also, it's up to the diver to decide how much risk he's willing to accept. Some people think diving on air to 40m (140 feet) is OK, others say it should be 30m (100'), others have been much deeper than that... it's their choice.
And with this post I'm not defending solo cave diving, I haven't done it, I enjoy having someone with me, but I know people who have done it, people who think of it as a necessity and a safer way to dive and there is some truth in their arguments.
SuPrBuGmAn
Contributor
Mark Michaud SELAUSAR
Contributor
Which is why I keep one bottle with a long hose. If someone gets through a restriction and has a problem I can still give them gas so they can work the problem out. I keep mine stowed so that it isnt in the way. I am not a proponent of taking bottles off during a problem. Just doesn't make good sense to me.
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