IP problem with brand new Poseidon Xstream

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@tbone1004 Thanks for your input. Yes, I wasn't worried about those IP values as indeed, it's likely it was set at 300 bar and I certainly don't have any high expectations regarding my gauge's percentage error (it's not the cheapest model, but not that expensive either, at around $30 or so). Given that regular made in Italy spg's can also be quite inaccurate and cost more, I certainly am satisfied if it's accurate within 3-4% or so.
One of my spg's (a stage style one with plastic face) reads at 5% below actual tank pressure (always 150-175 psi under on a full tank) as verified against a large digital precision gauge, and that seems to be somewhat within specs anyway (although perhaps on the high side of error margin, certainly not unusual), so I wouldn't expect more of a $30 IP gauge.
 
As much as it pains me to add a follow-up to this thread, unfortunately it seems I might need advice once more on what to do with this reg... So I finally took it for its maiden dive this past Saturday and suffered another failure. I set it up on an HP steel tank for dive 1 and had an uneventful dive of approx 1 hour. I liked how the reg breathed just fine, despite the relatively shallow depths of the dive (up to 45 ft or so only) and the fact that I usually like to draw long slow breaths from the reg, I didn't experience some of the annoying fluttering action some people sometimes complain about. The only unusual thing I noticed was some sort of small "bubbling" action when drawing gas from the second stage, as if there was a little mist in the air. Is that normal? I'm not sure how to describe this feeling.
Anyway, all was apparently ok until the surface interval, when I proceeded to switch tanks. After removing it from the first tank and setting it up on the second HP steel I had brought, I immediately heard a leak from the first stage upon opening the tank valve. It was quite audible and I could not immediately detect where it came from, apart from the fact that all hose connections seemed to be secure and it didn't seem to come from any of the ports, but rather from the DIN connection to the tank itself. Switching to a different tank from a friend produced the same leak. I then hurried to switch my reg over (I had brought my older Apeks yoke with me fortunately but needed to switch the drysuit hose, reinsert the yoke plug into my tank valve and octo securing clip as my hose lengths are different on the two setups scrambling to do this in my drysuit in the heat while my buddy was already all geared up waiting for me, melting in his drysuit and heavy doubles on his back, pretty annoying!)
Yesterday, I had a chance to examine this leak further and reconnected the Poseidon reg to the tank I had used on dive 1, which still had 1800 psi left in it. The leak manifested itself again, quite audible. This time, I monitored the gauge (digital since I received a new cobra 3 in replacement of my old cobra following the recent class action lawsuit against Suunto which I use as a glorified digital spg), and noticed the leak was somewhat slow. I left the valve fully open for 10 min and noticed a decrease in pressure of about 20 psi. The sound is definitely coming from the DIN connection and can be muffled by wrapping your fingers around the plastic ring that makes contact with the reg body. The IP gauge still locked at ~132 psi and didn't move. After closing the tank valve, and not purging the lines, the pressure on the gauge kept dropping slower and slower (several hours later it was still at 400+ psi).
So clearly the leak is in the high pressure system, and highly dependent on said high pressure. It seems likely caused by either an improperly torqued DIN stem, or perhaps a defective or extruded o-ring at the DIN stem/reg body connection. Now I understand that this type of leak is most commonly caused by user error, but honestly, I'm not sure what I could have done to cause this if the DIN stem was properly torqued in the first place (and it was just serviced by Poseidon themselves under warranty). I pay attention not to move the reg body after securing the DIN wheel to the tank valve in order not to inadvertently untorque the stem. Also, accidental bumping of the reg once attached seems unlikely to loosen the thing as the torque settings in the manual specify 30 Nm, and measuring the first stage, its extremities are 3-5 cm away from the axis of the DIN adapter, meaning one would need to apply a force of ~60-100 kg with their hands on the first stage body to loosen it (unlikely to happen in my opinion especially when you consciously pay attention not to do that). Clealry, the leak happened or was aggravated by switching tanks, since I couldn't hear anything out of the water following dive 1 before I disconnected the first stage.
Now I am left with a reg that has failed TWICE over the course of a grand total of ONE dive! What should I do? Try to fix this by torquing the DIN stem (unfortunately, I don't own the thin jaw wrench head/torque wrench combo needed to grab the stem and do this properly)? Also, if the problem is the o-ring inside, this won't solve anything, I need to remove the stem, check the o-ring, and re-install the stem, but is this advisable to attempt without the specialized tools needed for the job? Also, to be honest, the DIN stem still seems quite tightly screwed into the reg body and isn't loose at all (although the leak does appear to be small and certainly pressure dependent).
Not sure if this guy needs to be shipped back to Sweden for a second time, but as much as I really want to like this reg, circumstances are making this pretty hard for me.
Thanks very much for any suggestion you may have, and apologies for the long post!
 
@phoque
If the regs get knocked or moved while they're pressurized they will back out like that. All DIN regs are prone to it and is not a specific Poseidon problem.
You'd be surprised how easy it is to get them to back out just a little bit, especially if you have any bit of pressure on the system when you unscrew it.
I wouldn't try to do it without the thin wrench unfortunately.
May be worth asking @rsingler nicely if he can replace that o-ring for you.
 
@tbone1004
Thanks very much for your input! Yes, I realize this problem is likely a common issue with the DIN adapter, but the $500 proprietary torque wrench/head combo required for the fix seems to be Poseidon specific. :)
Honestly, I'm surprised as I really pay attention not to apply force to the reg body while pressurized and screwed into the valve. Also, if I had accidentally bumped the reg while still pressurized on tank #1, it seems I should have heard it leak then, which I didn't? This problem only became apparent when opening progressively the valve of the second tank, after the switch.
Perhaps the internal o-ring was slightly displaced when pressurized on tank #1, but not enough to leak at 1800 psi, and then when hooking the reg to a 3500 psi tank, it was extruded a little more then making the leak obvious? This is the best explanation I can come up with.
In any case, to fix this, especially if this is potentially going to happen again in the future, is it worth owning a set of third party tools to the like of this:
17 mm Socket for Poseidon Xstream 6mm Hex Drive or that:
27/17mm First Stage Wrench

A DIY solution such as 3D-printing a custom socket with 1/2" square drive (the 30 Nm torque spec is within range of my 1/2" torque wrench for car lug nuts after all) out of PET with 100% infill may be sturdy enough to withstand the load, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort involved.

In any case, I would still need a solution to hold the reg body while torquing/untorquing the DIN stem, which seems to require another special tool in the form of a handle screwing into one of the low pressure ports (though perhaps I could simply use an allen key set into a port plug maybe?)
 
@phoque I do have those tools and keep them and much prefer them to the crowsfeet because you can use a standard wrench with no adjustments to torque settings.
I don't believe you would get anywhere with 3d printing a socket unfortunately.

You can hack the body holder with an allen key but these are useful to have and pretty cheap. Makes getting hoses and port plugs in and out easier if they are stubborn or get stuck
First Stage Body Holding Tool | Dive Gear Express®

The description of the problem is strange, but it is possible that it got bumped while you were diving and/or had a bit of pressure on it when you swapped over. I've definitely been there and done that before.
 
I have to agree that that problem is endemic to DIN connections; and not particular to Poseidon. 30 nm or about 22 foot pounds is not much torque, in the grand scheme of things, especially if you grew up working on cars, where torque specs are generally much, much higher.

The very same thing has happened to me on a few occasions -- one time, in particular, when a fellow crew member took it upon herself, to swap out my regulator, while I was hitting the head, after a dive, while working on a liveaboard; and claimed that there was "something wrong with your gear," when she opened the valve on a new tank. She was ninety pounds wet and built like a spun-glass Christmas ornament; and yet was able to tweak it loose.

For that very reason, I carry one of my torque wrenches in a field kit; and it has come into use, more than a few times over the last few years; and not just with my gear or Poseidon . . .

@tbone1004
Thanks very much for your input! Yes, I realize this problem is likely a common issue with the DIN adapter, but the $500 proprietary torque wrench/head combo required for the fix seems to be Poseidon specific.

The only proprietary component of that set-up is the 17 mm wrench, which retails for US 40-50.00; and the torque wrench was, in the past, one by Hazet (15-35 nm), a German company, which can be had for far, far less than the Swedes are charging -- whom, I firmly believe, have hit the aquavitr way too often . . .
 

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Thanks @tbone1004
Regarding the style you own and prefer, you mean the first socket I linked with a hex drive? Is this the specific one you own, or do you have a source to recommend to purchase?
For the body holder I will purchase the one you linked as indeed it seems handy to have (too bad I just received a DGX order yesterday, bad timing...)
I have no problem sending the reg out to be serviced by a pro, but my concern is if this will happen again, it doesn't seem like a super viable route in the longer term. Could the leak come from any other problem than an improperly torqued DIN stem or extruded/bad o-ring?
Also, I wanted to get a hemostat to adjust the cracking pressure on the seconds. Any particular consideration to give to that, or any standard set should do?

Thanks very for your time, much appreciated.
 
I...prefer them to the crowsfeet because you can use a standard wrench with no adjustments to torque settings.
Useless factoid:
You can use a crow foot on a standard torque wrench if you mount it at 90° to the axis of the wrench.
The angle from handle axis to the line of the center of the crowfoot is about 10°. 1/cosine of 10° is 1.015.
In other words, you are applying only 1.5% more force than the dial indicates when you use it that way, which is close enough for government work.
Screenshot_20200602-092810_Samsung Notes.jpg
 
Nice German wrench you got there! A real connaisseur. I don't own any Hazet tools myself as I usually buy Wera or Stahlwille, but I got to agree that the $500+ Poseidon wrench is a bit on the ridiculous side...
 
Nice German wrench you got there! A real connaisseur. I don't own any Hazet tools myself as I usually buy Wera or Stahlwille, but I got to agree that the $500+ Poseidon wrench is a bit on the ridiculous side...

I inherited that one from someone who worked on, heh, heh, Volvos, who was jumping ship. Here's the already pricey wrench, that I had mentioned, over at Lex Luthor's site:

https://www.amazon.com/Hazet-6391-35-15-35Nm-Square-Torque/dp/B001CA1MBI
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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