Introduction and looking for recommendations on gear

[VanHalen5150]

So you like diving?

Go get certified. Full stop. Going on one adventure dive is one thing. Don't do any more now. You don't know what you're missing. Get a good class.

I totally get what you're saying. But I will say this, I would hedge a bet that the training I got from my buddy was better than 90% of the "resort certifications" people get when they go to the bahamas or jamaca. How many of those places go through a total equipment breakdown and gear swap underwater.

I get that I should be certified, and appreciate your concerns. You are correct.

Rest easy though, we arent doing anything deep, getting anywhere near nitrogen saturation or anything like that. and the limited diving I am doing is making me want to get certified! I want to feel confident to do 100+Ft dives and take multiple tanks down. Like seriously, I would love to do something like set up a anchor and line down from a boat and drop down 2-3 spare tanks and stay down so long I would need a fresh AL80 just for my Decomps coming up. My poor dive computer will be having a **** hemmorage if I ever pull that off I suppose.

I also plan on getting certed for Nitrox and or Trimix ASAP.

 

[jonnythan]

I totally get what you're saying. But I will say this, I would hedge a bet that the training I got from my buddy was better than 90% of the "resort certifications" people get when they go to the bahamas or jamaca. How many of those places go through a total equipment breakdown and gear swap underwater.

I get that I should be certified, and appreciate your concerns. You are correct.

Rest easy though, we arent doing anything deep, getting anywhere near nitrogen saturation or anything like that. and the limited diving I am doing is making me want to get certified! I want to feel confident to do 100+Ft dives and take multiple tanks down. Like seriously, I would love to do something like set up a anchor and line down from a boat and drop down 2-3 spare tanks and stay down so long I would need a fresh AL80 just for my Decomps coming up. My poor dive computer will be having a **** hemmorage if I ever pull that off I suppose.

I also plan on getting certed for Nitrox and or Trimix ASAP.

You don't know what you don't know.

 

[VanHalen5150]

You don't know what you don't know.

Thanks for that insightful bit of wisdom. Do you have anything of substance to offer to the discussion?

 

[diversteve]

One question.. You mention buying a backplate instead of a BCD? Umm how does that work as for flotation? I thought the backplate was the hard plastic piece that the tank strapped to? Maybe I am just confused but I thought unless you were using a drysuit you had to have a BCD?

I realise my questions may come off as total NOOB. Well, I am. but I do appreciate everyones help.

A Backplate and Wing (BP/W) is a modular configuration usually consisting of a hard plate (typically steel or aluminum) - a harness with straps and interchangeable wings - plus some method to secure the tank(s) - can be configured for single/double tanks. This explains it better than I can: DRIS Dive Gear 28lb BP/W System - Dive Right In Scuba - Plainfield, IL - watch the video.

You'd want a BCD with a drysuit also. What if it leaks? They're only buoyant until they do.

 

[halocline]

Thanks for the info, That HOG setup if nothing else sounds like an excelent beginner setup for a very fair price. My only concern is having never heard of them..

One question.. You mention buying a backplate instead of a BCD? Umm how does that work as for flotation? I thought the backplate was the hard plastic piece that the tank strapped to?

The main issue with HOG regulators for recreational divers is that they have DIN connection, not yoke, to the tank. The vast majority of rental tanks, tanks on charters, etc.. in the U.S. and caribbean are yoke valves. Don't buy a DIN regulator unless you will be using primarily DIN tanks. There are adapters to fit DIN regs on yoke tanks, but it makes zero sense to buy a reg that forces you to use an adapter when there are other excellent options. HOG is a new company that is primarily oriented towards technical divers. The quality of the regulators appears to be very good for the money, and the company's approach to service, making parts and manuals available to the diver, is a refreshing change from the idiocy of the current 'dealers only' business model.

Anyhow, if you don't yet understand the difference between yoke and DIN, don't buy anything. In fact, you really should get certified before making any gear decisions.

The backplate/wing systems do include an air cell for buoyancy, so they are just a different type of BCD. They include a rigid plate, usually steel or aluminum, a simple harness made of 2" webbing, and a 'wing' which is an air cell, with a LP inflator hose, mounted on the plate. You can spend many hours reading all about them in between your certification classes.

BTW, while I'm sure you're enthusiastic and respectful of your friend's expertise as a mentor, you're really in no position to evaluate your 'training' vs that of anyone else's. That's what Johnythan was probably referring to when he said 'you don't know what you don't know'. It's a matter of experience. One excellent thing about scubaboard is that you have access to divers with many years of experience that usually have no agenda other than to help you. And for free.....

 

[VanHalen5150]

Thanks for the info. That wing system while neat looking, looks like I would be stuck in the face down position since all my buoyancy would be behind me.

As for DIN/Yoke yeah, I understand, I know what K valves are, Hell I even know what J valves are. Boy ohh boy what a crazy way to keep up with your remaining air. You'd have to have balls to dive a J valve I suppose. I'll pass. ... Doing a buck-fifty on my motorcycle wouldn't scare me that much.

As for my training You're right, i might not be in a position to evaluate. But my friend is. He's certified. I did quite a bit of studying and took all the quizzes he took and passed them.I also have a near photographic memory when needed. in the end I knew more information from his books than he did and he's certified.

But I get it, Pay my dues, join the club the way I am supposed to, which is exactly what I intend to do. In the mean time, I do plan on diving. My concern here is getting information on equipment and such. As my friends experience has only been with his Mares Ruby and then just run of the mill rental junk. all mediocre at best.

it was kind of funny, Once we went on a dive and on a bet he lost I got the Mares and he got stuck with the rental gear. As soon as we got in the water he was banging on his tank and giving the "Surface" sign. So here we are in the middle of nowhere in this beautiful rock quarry with the clearest water you've ever seen, and he's bitching and moaning about the regs on this gear. He says the primary is free flowing so bad its blowing air out his nose, ears and as he so politely put it "every other bodily orifice I got".. So he switches to the backup and says its "like sucking molasses through a straw" Geez, Are you kidding me? Nope. They seemed ok on the surface but as soon as you got more than 6-8 feet deep they went nuts.

So, back out of the water, 75 miles back to the dive shop, picked up another set of gear and two free tanks of air and blew off the rest of the day. Our dive the next day was awesome, we spent the vast majority of it in probably 20 feet of water, then took a quick trip down to around 55 feet and then did mock decomp stops on the way up and just looked at the fish. All in all a nice day.

 

[Them]

Thanks for the info. That wing system while neat looking, looks like I would be stuck in the face down position since all my buoyancy would be behind me.

You would think so, but....

One way of looking at it is that the BCD or BP/W form a system with all of the weight and buoyancy at various distances from a center, then you and anything attached to you (weights and the like, ignoring the BCD/backplate) forms another system with your own balance. Those two systems are connected and the forces add together.

So if you have a BP/W where everything is very close to its center (which means it doesn't have a lot of torque to turn one way or another) and a 'you' that (I assume) can float on your back if you want, the combination of BP/W + 'you' can float on your back too. Or on your face.

On the other side most common BCDs (not all) have a bladder a good distance from their center (a long "arm" if you think that way) so they can generate some torque. That torque will tend to flip you buoyancy-up. Add a 'you' that can float face up and it's very easy to end up face-up. That is arguably good on the surface and bad when submerged where you really want to be face down.

However, you can also go with a back-inflate BCD which I've never tried but logically falls somewhere in the middle.

 

[VanHalen5150]

Fair enough. Makes sense on paper when you put it that way. I should see if I can rent one and try it out before making any firm decisions. All in all that sounds like a logical plan.

 

[ppatin]

The main issue with HOG regulators for recreational divers is that they have DIN connection, not yoke, to the tank. The vast majority of rental tanks, tanks on charters, etc.. in the U.S. and caribbean are yoke valves. Don't buy a DIN regulator unless you will be using primarily DIN tanks. There are adapters to fit DIN regs on yoke tanks, but it makes zero sense to buy a reg that forces you to use an adapter when there are other excellent options. HOG is a new company that is primarily oriented towards technical divers. The quality of the regulators appears to be very good for the money, and the company's approach to service, making parts and manuals available to the diver, is a refreshing change from the idiocy of the current 'dealers only' business model.

I was going to say the same thing about HOG regulators. Don't buy a reg with DIN connectors if you're mostly going to be using yoke tanks. One option the OP could consider though is Edge, HOG's recreational line. Apparently the internals are mostly the same and they do have a yoke first stage.

 

[ams511]

I was going to say the same thing about HOG regulators. Don't buy a reg with DIN connectors if you're mostly going to be using yoke tanks. One option the OP could consider though is Edge, HOG's recreational line. Apparently the internals are mostly the same and they do have a yoke first stage.

From my understanding dealers can and do match Hog second stages with Edge (yoke) first stages. For all we know an Edge first stage may be a Hog with a yoke and different branding.