Interested in taking Fundies...

[amascuba]

LOL, you're a class act.

If you want to post which course materials currently being used in GUE-F are written by AG, go ahead. It'll be a short post.

If you think the current format (pass/fail, different levels) is something created by AG, that'd contradict AG's own postings.

If you think there are skills in GUE-F that AG "invented", that's funny.

If you think JJ and George weren't traveling around doing DIR seminars before AG sat down in his parent's living room, you'd be mistaken.

I'm sorry you get your panties in such a bunch when you hear your tech instructor didn't invent diving.

If you read what AG wrote it's very clear what he did and did not do. He simply created a course/workshop which was to provide prospective GUE Tech/Cave students with the tools for fundamental skills so that they could be better prepared for the tech and cave classes. Those skills would have been buoyancy, trim, basic 5, etc. That course was the original fundamentals workshop. Beyond that the course evolved into what it is today. If it were not for AG, there may have never been a fundamentals course.

 

[TSandM]

Hey, you guys, you're making a great mess of a thread which was originally started by somebody who wants to take Fundies (bet he's done some second thinking about THAT).

There are only so many skills in diving. Of COURSE the other early DIR guys mentored divers in them. It's also widely accepted that GUE was having a problem with people showing up for the tech classes who weren't ready and didn't have the skills. The Fundamentals workshop was created to remedy that. Taking a set list of skills and outlining a formal workshop that could be standardized around the country may well have been Andrew's brainchild. Certainly the written materials have been reworked any number of times. There may be very little left of what Andrew wrote -- I don't know, and I suspect Rainer doesn't, either.

Does it matter? It's on the record that Andrew was once director of training for GUE, and he taught a lot of people, many of whom remain associated with GUE. He didn't like seeing Fundies become a pass fail class, and he teaches a recreational sequence that is not. The contents are very similar to Fundies. It's a viable option for people in the Monterey area who don't want to go to SoCal for Fundies. Regardless of his fallings out with GUE, Andrew was and is a superb diving instructor.

Having an ugly argument like this in a thread like this one just helps convince non-DIR divers that we're a stiff-necked, unpleasant, doctinaire bunch. Which, in general, we are not.

 

[AndyNZ]

I've been lurking on these forums for a while now, and while I'm not sure if I'm interested in the DIR way of diving, I am really interested in taking the Fundies course.

Would it be possible for me to rent the gear required for the class? Would my instructor help me with that or would I basically be on my own with that part of the course requirements?

The facility that organised my Fundies certainly rented gear to those who needed it - but it's probably cheaper to buy than to fly all the way here! You should be able to beg, borrow or steal what you need.

Also, do you know of any non-DIR (either tech or rec) that would be equivalent to Fundies and wouldn't require me to change my gear (I have DIN regs and a back-inflate BC)?

It depends, partciularly on what it is you are wanting to acheive.

With a good instructor, you'd get a lot of the same knowledge and skills from doing a combination of Deep and Peak Performance Buoyancy classes.... before people start laughing, I do recognise that the number of instructors out there who would teach these classes to the level where you get the same value as Fundies is very low. You'd really have to shop around and find instructors who understand what gas management really is, and who not only have good trim and buoyancy control but also know the best way of mentoring people so they can learn it. My guess is that probably less than 1% of recreational instructors fall in this category.

It's a similar story with tec classes, most should teach gas management but there are probably very few who really hammer the basics of trim and buoyancy. To be specific, I know four TDI instructors - and only one of those actually works on trim and buoyancy. So 25% seems a bit better than 1%. Depending on the instructor, you may or may not have to change your gear. For example, TDI standards allow Advanced Nitrox & Deco Procedures to be taught with a single tank and a pony bottle. A rear inflation BCD would be fine, though some instructors will insist on manifolded twins. To be honest, if you're thinking of doing some technical diving in the future then these are the instructors you probably want to seek out. Whilst you can dive twin cylinders in softpack harnesses (e.g. DiveRite Transpac), nothing really beats the stability of a hard plate IMHO.

If you do decide to do Fundies, you won't regret it. You may or may not choose to go "wholly DIR" afterwards - but at least after having done Fundies it will be an informed choice.

 

[b1gcountry]

I just got done with Fundies two days ago, and its definitely a great class and very worthwhile to your diving. I would guess the instructor has a bunch of extra gear you could borrow for the class. Setting up a day or two with the instructor beforehand to get it setup would be a really good idea, and you would get a chance to dive it and get used to it a little. Other than the BP, there isn't much you need for the Rec class. Regulators can be changed out and setup appropriately for basically the price of hoses, and maybe a new SPG. Fins may be fine with what you have, and I have never found a snorkel that can't be removed

I strongly encourage you to contact the local GUE instructors. They know what they are teaching better than anyone here. They will have answers to all your questions.
Tom

 

[Adobo]

XXXXX, you are correct that the old workshop is nothing like the current DIRF pass/fail/tech/rec class.

Umm, there is truth that the current format has many differences when compared against the original workshop. However, I don't think it was an instant flip of the switch but rather an evolution that got the class to what it is today. I know that the class had already begun it's evolution before AG and GUE parted ways. It was already a pass/provisional/fail class at the time of AG's departure.

Having taken both 5thd-x's (back to what it was supposed to be) Essentials class and the latest evolution of Fundamentals, I am of the opinion that while the classes serve greatly different purposes, the roots of both classes are the same.

Slightly different topic -
I recall AG posting a thread forever ago describing how he got involved with GUE. He took cave instruction from that JJ guy. That stuff was pre-GUE days as I understand it. If you are to believe AG, he was involved with GUE from the very beginning. What his role was at that time is not clear to me but I suspect that different people who were there have different opinions on it.

The earliest data available from the wayback machine for GUE.com is from April 28,1999. The website at that time does not have anything that resembles "Fundamentals". However, AG is listed there as an instructor. The Nov. 19, 2000 instance of the GUE website has an entry for "DIR Demo Schedule" but nothing on Fundamentals. The first instance of the website that lists Fundamentals is the Feb. 24, 2001 incarnation.

So the point, a class that resembled Fundamentals created prior to AG's time with GUE is not evident based on the wayback machine.

I don't think anyone would claim that AG invented the concepts taught in Fundamentals. But then again, I don't think JJ was the father of the back kick, the long hose/bungeed back up, trim, precision buoyancy, etc. One thing I would say is that AG's description of how the class called Fundamentals was born is not readily contradicted. If I were to guess, I would say that AG took material that was already out there and packaged it as a formal workshop (as opposed to the shoot from the hip approach that GI3 displays in all of his videos).

Anyway, I wasn't present for any of this stuff so I think I will take your advice and head for the sidelines.

P.S. I directed this reply to you since I don't really feel like going back and forth with the other fellow in this thread.

 

[Adobo]

I'm interested in Fundies because it sounds like a rigorous class that will improve my diving, even with non-DIR gear.

The best thing to do is to contact one of the instructors that you are interested in and inquire. There are some pretty inflexible requirements around gear from a standards perspective but you never know what type of "exceptions" individual instructors are willing to make.

 

[lamont]

Slightly different topic -
I recall AG posting a thread forever ago describing how he got involved with GUE. He took cave instruction from that JJ guy. That stuff was pre-GUE days as I understand it.

One of my dive buddies from my trip to MX in june was certified by JJ and was AGs dive buddy in those classes. His cert is not with GUE but with is the organization that JJ used to be involved with before he forked off GUE (NACD?).

We did 22 cave dives in 7 days and somehow lightning didn't strike us down for diving with a non-GUE certified diver... =)

 

[rjack321]

Ted, for a youngin' your wayback machine is pretty accurate :14:

Rainer you crack me up. Nothing to contribute 1st hand whatsoever. TS&M suggests an alternative and you jump all over that heresy. A riot.