Integrated Alternate Air Source

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rnjen95

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I have recently completed Advanced Open Water. Both my dive buddy and I recently purchased the Aqualung Zuma with an integrated alternate air source with the idea of better streamlining and one less hose. During a recent Deep Dive course the instructor stated she had used one of these in the past but would never consider using it again. The instructor found herself out of air after her regulator malfunctioned and all air lost. Her buddy, who was also equipped with an integrated air source gave her his main regulator and took the alternate source. Both of them quickly realized that her buddy was unable to breathe well (if at all) from his alternate as the hose did not allow for bending and it kinked up. The instructor said she waved her buddy off and completed an emergency ascend successfully.
After hearing this... I tried out my alternate during a skills practice with my buddy. I too found it very difficult to breathe as the semi rigid hose would not bend enough to fit the regulator mouthpiece securely in my mouth. I am now contemplating going back to the octopus style.
My question is would it be impractical to practice using the alternate as the buddy reg in an out of air emergency situation? After much discussion and research both my buddy and myself feel that if practiced, we could complete this maneuver successfully as well as keep each other close as we ascend. What are we not considering???
 
I've practiced with my ScubaPro Air 2 multiple times and never had a problem breathing from it. I try and use it as a test for about 5 minutes at depth (instead of my primary) on each dive trip, just so I can be 100% sure it works and i'm comfortable with it.
 
I have recently completed Advanced Open Water. Both my dive buddy and I recently purchased the Aqualung Zuma with an integrated alternate air source with the idea of better streamlining and one less hose. During a recent Deep Dive course the instructor stated she had used one of these in the past but would never consider using it again. The instructor found herself out of air after her regulator malfunctioned and all air lost. Her buddy, who was also equipped with an integrated air source gave her his main regulator and took the alternate source. Both of them quickly realized that her buddy was unable to breathe well (if at all) from his alternate as the hose did not allow for bending and it kinked up. The instructor said she waved her buddy off and completed an emergency ascend successfully.
After hearing this... I tried out my alternate during a skills practice with my buddy. I too found it very difficult to breathe as the semi rigid hose would not bend enough to fit the regulator mouthpiece securely in my mouth. I am now contemplating going back to the octopus style.
My question is would it be impractical to practice using the alternate as the buddy reg in an out of air emergency situation? After much discussion and research both my buddy and myself feel that if practiced, we could complete this maneuver successfully as well as keep each other close as we ascend. What are we not considering???

not sure if I completely understand the question, are you asking about donating the integrated alternate air source to an out of gas buddy? If so, I can't really see this working out all that well, since the hose would be too short causing the two of you to be extra close to each other and a small change in buoyancy could rip the regulator out of their mouth.

Also, if you have a shoulder pull dump on your BC, every time the out of gas diver tugged on the regulator, you would have gas dumping out of your BC, and in order to put the gas back in, you would need to grab the regulator that is in your buddy's mouth -- probably not pull it out, but still, an awkward way to add gas to your BC.

If I misunderstood the question, then I apologize for going off on a tangent :)

Personally, I am not a big fan of integrated air sources, since I don't see the extra hose and regulator as a big issue, but my understanding is that many people use them and consider them safe. Perhaps if you took your setup to the place you bought it and explained the issue, they would have a solution for you....different hose?
 
Both my dive buddy and I recently purchased the Aqualung Zuma with an integrated alternate air source with the idea of better streamlining and one less hose. . . During a recent Deep Dive course the instructor stated she had used one of these in the past but would never consider using it again. ... I tried out my alternate during a skills practice with my buddy. I too found it very difficult to breathe as the semi rigid hose would not bend enough to fit the regulator mouthpiece securely in my mouth. My question is would it be impractical to practice using the alternate as the buddy reg in an out of air emergency situation? After much discussion and research both my buddy and myself feel that if practiced, we could complete this maneuver successfully as well as keep each other close as we ascend. What are we not considering?
Hmm. I have to ask: when you bought your Zumas, did you start out intending to purchase an integrated octo / inflator? Or, were you convinced, during the purchasing process, of the desirability of going that way, by a smooth sales pitch, which emphasized the so-called streamlining benefits and the supposed advantage of ‘one less hose’. Most new divers I work with and dive with never hear about an integrated unit until they talk to some LDS sales person. Maybe not. Maybe, your intrinsic genetic composition moved you inexorably in that direction. Just curious.

I don’t know that you are not considering anything in particular. But, some things do stand out in your post.

1. Streamlining. I have never seen anyone demonstrate that the so-called streamlining makes any difference underwater. It is a false benefit. Perhaps, more accurately put, it is a marketing benefit (that is, a benefit to the marketer). A related bias - (far) more divers will get (far) more benefit, in terms of streamlining and u/w efficiency, by working on achieving optimal weighting and weight distribution, by working on good buoyancy control and good horizontal trim, and by developing efficient propulsion techniques, than will those who dive an integrated octo / inflator.
2. One less hose. OK, you have one less LP hose to buy, and one less to fail - although LP hose failure is uncommon, they do occasionally start leaking. So what? Having one less hose, in the grand scheme of things, doesn’t make a bit of difference in u/w efficiency. If your kit is well organized and streamlined across and along your body, the number of hoses is incidental and irrelevant.
3. You have already found the Airsource awkward to breath from. What a surprise (not). But you believe that with practice, you can make it work. Good for you. Please do practice. I admit, in my own case, I prefer not to have to make an inefficient system ‘work’.

To each his own. It is your money, spend it as you wish. And you will (probably) not die as a result of using an integrated octo / inflator (or using split fins, or diving a jacket BCD). The number of real OOA situations - leading to actual alternate air source use - that occur in recreational diving is so small as to qualify as infinitesimal. OOAs do occur, however, but usually don't lead to AAS use, although they do lead to some uncontrolled ascents and a few injuries and even fatalities. Yes, you hear anecdotes about OOA/AAS situations. Yes, they are real. But, the statistical likelihood of you ever having to worry about this is small.

As for me, I prefer a standard ‘octo’. Actually, what I prefer is having an alternate second stage that is identical to my primary (and having both breath very well). I prefer to have that alternate second stage secured close to my mouth in case I need it (i.e. on a bungee necklace right under my chin). I prefer to have my ‘donatable’ second stage right where I can reach it, and an OOA buddy can reach it – in my mouth, not located somewhere in the obscure (Bermuda) Triangle of my scuba unit, where my OOA – but predictably, calm, poised and rationale - dive buddy can carefully search for it – while I watch with equal serenity, knowing with absolute certainty that s/he will easily find it, deploy it, orient it and begin comfortably breathing within a matter of mere seconds.
 
There should be no major restrictions when using an integrated octo/inflator. Head movement to the right may be a little restricted and you will have to practice buoyancy control while breathing from it. If the restriction is excessive, you may need longer hoses.
 
Head movement to the right may be a little restricted and you will have to practice buoyancy control while breathing from it. If the restriction is excessive, you may need longer hoses.
Are there differences among the integrated units in ease of use? Does the flexibility of the 'corrugated' hose make any difference? I have limited experience with them, so I am curious what others with more experience have found to be more effective.
 
There should be no major restrictions when using an integrated octo/inflator. Head movement to the right may be a little restricted and you will have to practice buoyancy control while breathing from it. If the restriction is excessive, you may need longer hoses.

Before moving to a BP&W and an octo I found this same issue with my ScubaPro Air 2. I talked to my LDS about changing it out to a longer hose and they seemed indifferent about it and less than enthusiastic about getting me a longer hose. I never had an issue with the ScubaPro Air 2 not working just limiting my movements and buoyancy control when air sharing. I like my octo on a bungee much better but not right under my chin, I have mine situated a bit lower than that and the octo trades out perfectly for me. I have also tried the Atomic SS1 AAS which is a very nice breather as far as an AAS goes.
 
Are there differences among the integrated units in ease of use? Does the flexibility of the 'corrugated' hose make any difference? I have limited experience with them, so I am curious what others with more experience have found to be more effective.

Yes, all the brands will be different. My ScubaPro Air 2 is great and does not have any of the problems you mentioned.
 
Some breathe better than others. Personally though I don't like them and do not permit them in my Advanced Classes unless the diver also puts a standard octo on their rig. I taught a rescue class where two people had trouble figuring out which button did what on another divers BC equipped with an alternate. Now some will say that they should have been briefed by the diver using it. Well that diver was not either person's buddy. The scenario was they come upon someone in trouble that they do not know and need to assist him. So why would they be briefed by him. They would not. They learned something as did the diver with the integrated AAS.

In all fairness I did use one on a ScubaPro Classic Jacket when I forgot my wing. Had to rent the BC. Never felt so confined, unsafe, bulked up, and like I was dragging a brick on the end of my inflator.
 
Some breathe better than others. Personally though I don't like them and do not permit them in my Advanced Classes unless the diver also puts a standard octo on their rig. I taught a rescue class where two people had trouble figuring out which button did what on another divers BC equipped with an alternate. Now some will say that they should have been briefed by the diver using it. Well that diver was not either person's buddy. The scenario was they come upon someone in trouble that they do not know and need to assist him. So why would they be briefed by him. They would not. They learned something as did the diver with the integrated AAS.

In all fairness I did use one on a ScubaPro Classic Jacket when I forgot my wing. Had to rent the BC. Never felt so confined, unsafe, bulked up, and like I was dragging a brick on the end of my inflator.


Well, you might not like my more conventional Scubapro Balanced Power Inflator either. Its control button are more similar to the Air2 than to the more common 'K' style inflators. I believe all current Scubapro inflators are a similar configuration. The smaller button which is also closest to the LPI hose connection is the power inflate. The larger button which is a bit further away from the hose connection is the manual inflate/deflate. The real answer should be if you are not sure then try one button. If it does not do what you want, try the other one. It should not take more than a few seconds.
 

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