Integrated Alternate Air Source

[DivemasterDennis]

I join the majority vierw in favor of a traditional alternate air source set up. It is a must for all DM's and instructors, and for others it is easier to use. I think the low pressuire inflator alternate air source loses all advantages it may have once you need to use it. And it is use of it that is the reason for having it. You could get really streamilned by having a tank and primary air source, and leave off those pesky spg hoses, even the low pressure infltor and bcd. Heck, Mike nelson didn't use one. The point is streamlining is overrated. Now, avoiding the dangle, that is another thing, for another thread.
DivemasterDennis

 

[redacted]

One clear advantage of an integrated octo/inflator is it prevents this:

Sure, there are other better ways of preventing the "trolling octo" but the diver has to do something. And many fail to control it.

 

[Colliam7]

One clear advantage of an integrated octo/inflator is it prevents this:

Sure, there are other better ways of preventing the "trolling octo" but the diver has to do something. And many fail to control it.

And, I am right there with you, at least in part. There is no excuse for a 'trolling octo'. Your point is spot on ' 'the DIVER has to do something'. If a diver is so clueless about their gear that they need an integrated octo / inflator to address the trolling octo, I would suggest the problem is much bigger, and quite different, than the use of an combination octo / inflator. That is why I added the caveat, ' If your kit is well organized and streamlined across and along your body, the number of hoses is incidental and irrelevant.'

A phrase often repeated on SB is, 'That is an equipment solution to a skills problem.' If someone must use a combination unit because they are simply oblivious to the fact that their octo, and console in all likelihood, are dragging across the reef / bottom I suspect there are other, far more substantive, equipment and skill issues. Maybe, what is actually needed is a combintaion, integrated, octo, low pressure inflator, and SPG.

Maybe, some divers should start carrying garden shears . . . 'Uh, duh, where's my octo?' Last time I saw it, it was bouncing across the bottom, where I could keep track of it.' Just kidding, of course.

 

[nimoh]

And, I am right there with you, at least in part. There is no excuse for a 'trolling octo'. Your point is spot on ' 'the DIVER has to do something'. If a diver is so clueless about their gear that they need an integrated octo / inflator to address the trolling octo, I would suggest the problem is much bigger, and quite different, than the use of an combination octo / inflator. That is why I added the caveat, ' If your kit is well organized and streamlined across and along your body, the number of hoses is incidental and irrelevant.'

A phrase often repeated on SB is, 'That is an equipment solution to a skills problem.' If someone must use a combination unit because they are simply oblivious to the fact that their octo, and console in all likelihood, are dragging across the reef / bottom I suspect there are other, far more substantive, equipment and skill issues. Maybe, what is actually needed is a combintaion, integrated, octo, low pressure inflator, and SPG.

Maybe, some divers should start carrying garden shears . . . 'Uh, duh, where's my octo?' Last time I saw it, it was bouncing across the bottom, where I could keep track of it.' Just kidding, of course.

I don't think I have ever seen an example where "That is an equipment solution to a skills problem" was more appropriate

 

[Jim Lapenta]

People like that should not have a c card in the first place. And maybe their instructor as well if they could not get the message across to not do crap like that.

The last time I was at the training site I will be at next weekend I saw students giant striding while being watched by their DM and Instructor with gauges and octos unsecured. Not one of the "professionals" said a word.

When they got out I understood why. Yep! They were just as bad. Several gauges and seconds bounced off the dock as they were entering. There are times when a Scuba Police with the power to biatch slap people upside the head would be a good thing.

 

[flots am]

One clear advantage of an integrated octo/inflator is it prevents this:

Sure, there are other better ways of preventing the "trolling octo" but the diver has to do something. And many fail to control it.

Besides the "enforced neatness" factor, the other big advantage to an integrated inflator is that the diver can find it. Every time, without fail.

And in an astonishing feat of user-interface design, the more nervous the diver gets, the more likely they are to already have the inflator in their hand, so when an emergency comes up, there's no question where it is.

Although it's by no means the best breathing reg I own, I do use it in class and it's perfectly suited for it's job, which is to get two OW divers from a reasonable depth, to the surface safely. If anybody had to suck on it for more than four minutes, I'd be surprised.

A reg that breathes hard is much better than a reg that doesn't breathe at all, like the one in the picture that I'm certain the diver can't find.

flots

 

[redacted]

I don't think I have ever seen an example where "That is an equipment solution to a skills problem" was more appropriate

Well, yes and no. I have yet to see a really good way to reliably secure an octo on a 39" hose. Some are always loose while other just occasionally get free. A 22" hose and a necklace seems to be reliable and never lets it go too far; but some divers (like my wife) just don't take to that and a long hose around their neck. My wife loves her Air2 because she always knows exactly where to find it.

Is the rejection of an octo/inflator because others may not know how to work it not also an equipment solution to a skills problem?

 

[BFRedrocks]

I'm a fairly new diver who owns an Atomic SS1 in addition to an ST1 primary. The SS1 was purchased at the recommendation of my tech diver/divemaster friend, not from some LDS sales pitch. I have used it for practice myself (breath from it every dive for at least a few minutes) and for a practice OOA situation with my buddy (they get my primary on a fairly long hose, and I get the SS1). In every situation, the SS1 breathed just as good as the Octo I used in my OW and AOW classes, and I never had a problem controlling the air in my BC while breathing from it, nor did I feel restricted in my movements while it was in my mouth.

As flots said, it is always easy to find, and I've never experienced the "issues" a lot of folks on this thread have mentioned. To each their own I guess...my primary buddies all dive with SS1s and I feel safe diving with them.

 

[Colliam7]

People like that should not have a c card in the first place. And maybe their instructor as well if they could not get the message across to not do crap like that.

LOL! Jim, thanks for saying it. I guess I didn't want to be viewed as somehow turning this thread toward a bash - the OP asked a legitimate question, and awap made a very good point. So, I was probably a bit hesitant to help encourage the thread to move away from the question, and in this direction.

B - u - u - u - t - t, let's just say that there is a very good statistical probability that I am not in disagreement at any level with your well-stated point.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

I also started with an SS1 on my ST1, and it mated nicely with the garden hose coupling on my Zeagle BCD. I liked it because it simplified the rig by one hose and one piece of gear (not to be confused with streamlining), and breathed very well at depth. Doing air shares in OW and AOW wasn't hard, I just donated my primary...which our instructors told us was probably going to happen in a real OOA whether we wanted it to or not. It also kept the buttons for ascent/descent right in front of my face during an emergency: where I couldn't miss them (even if that's not generally where the BCD controls are) and where it's harder for the OOA panicked diver to grab them.

Ultimately, I ditched it when I went BP/W for two reasons: first, even being right there at the end of the inflator hose isn't as readily available to me as a necklaced backup; second, being workable (much less comfortable) to breathe off required a longer LP and corrugated hose than I wanted. As bad as octo divers are about dragging across the bottom, divers with octoinflators tend to drag them some, too, just by virtue of having a longer than otherwise necessary inflator hose.

But the idea that they're inherently less optimal than the traditional primary/octo rig is as simpleminded as the one that long hose primaries/necklaced backups have no place outside tech diving.