Instructors - Agencies Split from overweight

[dumpsterDiver]

I agree with Pete, I think my PADI instructor course taught us how to teach. I felt that it was an extremely effective and efficient means to teach, all you had to do was follow their outline for teaching. I also think that standards are probably too low, but the techniques for teaching students that PADI teaches it's instructors to use is educationally valid.

 

[tedtim]

I agree with Pete, I think my PADI instructor course taught us how to teach. I felt that it was an extremely effective and efficient means to teach, all you had to do was follow their outline for teaching. I also think that standards are probably too low, but the techniques for teaching students that PADI teaches it's instructors to use is educationally valid.

I rest my case. I guess if you can read, you can teach. Yep, just read what it says on the powerpoint slides.

It must be simple to conduct an accident analysis too then.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I rest my case. I guess if you can read, you can teach. Yep, just read what it says on the powerpoint slides.

It must be simple to conduct an accident analysis too then.

You hurt my feelings (a little). I almost want to defend PADI now, but I can't. I do think their OW course is too abbreviated and simplistic, but I can confidentaly say that the course iteself is extremely efficient in teaching the skills and theory. Follow their guidlines, outline and methodology and the students will learn what the course sets out to teach.

 

[MikeFerrara]

2. He has never said this death was the result of inadequate training.

You say that because you agree with him. The implications are so OBVIOUS that there is no mistaking the underlying message here.

Actually, I think all my posts in this thread have been in regards to young children diving with parents who are novice divers and the related turns the conversation took as a result. I haven't addressed the cause of this accident at all.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I lost my server for a week or so, but it's back. As for dogs? kids and dogs are good for only two things: kids and dogs.

But it appears that some would paint instructors (and their agencies) as being as crooked as a mechanic, as stupid as a plumber and as lazy as a lawyer. After all, those three professions are the most maligned that I know. Having been a mechanic (ASE Master Certified), I know just how UNFAIR these over generalizations are.

You mention that I am biased... against what? Non sequiturs? Gross over generalizations? Fallacious assumptions? Why yes, I am biased against all of those. But I refuse to play this finger pointing game at the agencies or the instructors. I find it incredibly sad that some do.

We don't have to paint anybody as anything or make any gerneralizations. All we have to do is read it all directly from the standards.

 

[MikeFerrara]

You hurt my feelings (a little). I almost want to defend PADI now, but I can't. I do think their OW course is too abbreviated and simplistic, but I can confidentaly say that the course iteself is extremely efficient in teaching the skills and theory. Follow their guidlines, outline and methodology and the students will learn what the course sets out to teach.

Skills?...keel here and do this...kneel there and do that. "Educationally valid"? A term that PADI uses to describe it in the PADI instructor training materials. I think it means "kneeling".

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Skills?...keel here and do this...kneel there and do that. "Educationally valid"? A term that PADI uses to describe it in the PADI instructor training materials. I think it means "kneeling".

.... It works for the catholics and they have been around a lot longer than PADI......

 

[MikeFerrara]

As an instructor, wouldn't you be observing the student at all times during their testing? If a student "crawled" through their nav course, would you pass them?

What I would do and what PADI standards require an instructor to do are two very different things.

For example...the PADI AOW standards don't require the instructor to even be in the water supervising on the nav dive. I often see instructors on the dock or shore watching the bubble trail. All that must be evaluated is the accuracy of the navigation.

Shouldn't the instructor assess the ability of the student during all phases of the dive?

I think they should but but standards don't require them to.

I know that my instructor has failed plenty of AOW students who could not demonstrate basic dive skills.

Technically to "fail" a student who meets the performance requirements set forth in the standards is, in itself, a violation of the standards.

I think you would be better able to discuss this if you got a copy of the standards and read them.

 

[The Chairman]

I think they should but but standards don't require them to.

Bull. NAUI requires that I do just this.

Technically to "fail" a student who meets the performance requirements set forth in the standards is, in itself, a violation of the standards.

More Bull. NAUI tells me if they aren't fit to dive with my grandma, they are not fit to dive.

I think you would be better able to discuss this if you got a copy of the standards and read them.

This has NOTHING to do with the death of this panicked diver and yet you keep trying to prove that no agency has sufficient standards.

 

[SparticleBrane]

Better than what? Do you KNOW her level of training? Do you KNOW who even trained her? No... it's the ego insinuating that your training must somehow be superior. That's pretty normal I guess. "Everyone else is crap compared to my (insert dive instructor, agency, affiliation here)!!!" is a statement I have had enough of.

It's sad that some would use this tragedy as a stepping stone to further their agenda.

Don't know a darn thing about her level of training, but I do know this:
She panicked in what was apparently standard weather/conditions for Molasses Reef, which is usually fairly calm. She apparently panicked on the surface.

Pete I might be quite young compared to everyone else on here, but I've been around pools all my life -- since I was 1 when my mom tossed me in the pool to start taking swimming lessons at the YMCA (lots of water where I grew up, she was afraid I'd fall in and drown...). The only people I've ever seen panic at the surface, even in scuba gear, were people who weren't properly or thoroughly trained, either in swimming or scuba (take your pick).